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Sat May 26 13:37:58 SAST 2012

Tutu tells ANC government it's a disgrace

NASHIRA DAVIDS | 05 October, 2011 00:34

Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu has launched a blistering attack on President Jacob Zuma's government, saying he would go as far as praying for the ANC's demise.

"We will pray as we prayed for the downfall of the apartheid government, we will pray for the downfall of the government that misrepresents us," a furious Tutu said at a news conference on South Africa's failure to grant a visa to Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama.

''Our government is worse than the apartheid government, because at least you were expecting it from the apartheid government ." said Tutu.

Yesterday, two days before Tutu's 80th birthday, the Dalai Lama - who first applied in June for a visa to visit South Africa - withdrew his application because he did "not want to create any inconvenience to anyone, individuals or governments," his office said.

Included in the Tibetan leader's South African itinerary was delivering the inaugural Desmond Tutu International Peace Lecture at the University of the Western Cape.

The Times has learnt reliably that the government was to inform him yesterday that his application had been denied.

This is the second time in two years that the Dalai Lama, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, has been refused entry into the country.

The Times understands that the Department of Home Affairs tried to advise the Department of International Relations and Co-operation on how to deal with the Buddhist leader's visa application, as Home Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma is a former minister of foreign affairs and presided over the refusal of his visa in 2009.

Home Affairs sought a meeting with the Presidency and the International Relations and Co-operation Department on the matter but the meeting never took place.

At a press conference called by the Desmond Tutu Peace Centre late yesterday afternoon, Tutu sent shivers through the audience.

"The trouble I think is that the ANC reckons that the freedom that we enjoy is due to them. They reckon everyone else is just a sideline," he said.

Tutu, who shouted and wagged a finger as he spoke, said Zuma did not represent him.

"Hey Mr Zuma, you and your government don't represent me. You represent your own interests."

The retired archbishop spoke of how disgusted he had been when he had sat in parliament during Zuma's state of the nation address, listening to "this president of ours" failing to pay tribute to the religious leaders who helped in the fight against apartheid.

He reminded the gathering that it was religious leaders who in 1989 organised 30000 people to march against oppression.

"Let the ANC know that they cannot airbrush us out," he said.

Government spokesman Jimmy Manyi responded later: "The Arch seemed very angry. He is very angry. We note that the Arch is very angry and we will respond in due course."

ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu said last night: "We are appealing to the archbishop to calm down and work together with the ANC and its government, first, on the Dalai Lama issue and, second, we appeal to the archbishop not to pray for the demise of the ANC-led government, but instead to work together with the ANC and pray for the ANC-led government to deliver a better life for all the people of South Africa.''

Earlier yesterday, International Relations spokesman Clayson Monyela said the authorities had been processing the Dalai Lama's visa application when the South African High Commissioner's office in New Delhi received a statement from the Tibetan spiritual leader saying he was cancelling his trip.

"We have not denied him a visa. There was no refusal by the South African government to grant him a visa. He has, for the reasons he has expressed in the statement, decided to cancel the trip when the process was still under way," said Monyela.

It was unfair for the Dalai Lama's office to have expected a visa to be issued in such a short time. Monyela said the Dalai Lama's original passport was submitted only on September 20. Previously, a photocopy of the passport had been submitted as the Dalai Lama had been travelling.

"There is no country in the world that can process a visa without the original passport," he said.

But at the press conference yesterday advocate Dumisa Ntsebeza, chairman of the Desmond Tutu Peace Centre, said he was "saddened" by Monyela's attitude. Monyela's implication that the Dalai Lama did not know how to apply for a visa was insulting to the leader, his office and the Desmond Tutu Peace Centre.

Ntsebeza said he had written to the Deputy Minister of International Relations, Ebrahim Ebrahim, and contacted the director-general of the Department of Home Affairs, Mkhuseli Apleni, and even Dlamini-Zuma.

Wits University has organised a march of protest at the government's "silencing [of] the voice of His Holiness the Dalai Lama".

Vice-Chancellor Loyiso Nongxa said: "The university condemns the state for once again not granting a visa for this stalwart of peace to enter our country."

Matthew McDonald, a research analyst for the Centre for Chinese Studies at the University of Stellenbosch, said the issue had escalated "beyond proportion".

"There is now suspicion about Chinese pressure, even if we don't know if there was any in this case. There are questions around the declared value basis of South Africa's foreign policy - and a question about how sovereign South Africa is in its decisions. There is an unhappy civil society ." he said.

Paul Graham, executive director of Idasa, said it was difficult to understand why the government had not granted a "tourist visa".

"Of course visas are always at the discretion of the state to whom an application is made, but on the assumption that a correct and timely application was made, a refusal must inevitably raise questions about whether the decision was influenced by a wish not to offend a critical trading partner," he said.

- Additional reporting by Sipho Masondo, Philani Nombembe and Sapa

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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
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"Hey Mr Zuma, you and your government don't represent me. You represent your own interests."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey Mr Zuma.......Did you hear that ?

Did you listen very carefully ?
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cANCerSurvivor

Posted 234 days ago
I'd also like to 2nd that statement: "Hey Mr Zuma, you and your government don't represent me. You represent your own interests."

In my eyes, this government has gone from being a disappointment to a disgrace.
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
You see Sui, ive told you time and time again that only time will tell and that there's nothing wrong with the ANC but people within it a steering it away from the Freedom Charter which is suppose to be their conerstone. it seems surely but slowly the wheels are coming off. as ive said before, you should not let your morals stop you from doing the right thing ps i think a lot of politicians know they willl not be around for ever so they just wana fill their pockets to the brim, its a sad case
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BAMBINA

Posted 234 days ago
Dear Mr. Zuma

You and your government only represent what can go into your bank, if there is no financial gain then there is no support from you or your corrupt government, it is frightening reading on a daily basis how every department in the government is guilty of maladministration, imagine how rich SA would be and how it would have schools, hospitals etc that actually work if your employee's did not steal us blind.
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BarryPotgieter

Posted 233 days ago
Tutu my ou Tattie,you did a great job putting a CURSE on Zuma and the ANC party,they shall NOT last long and fall by the way side with ALL the GRAVY TRAIN Passengers.
The Ancestors of the poor of the poor will come back to PUNISH the GREEDY "COMRADES".The are not sleeping but waiting for the correct moment.

Gaara

Posted 234 days ago
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Ha Ha Ha. i love this man. tell it like it is Arch!!
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
I hope you also agree with him when he says white people must pay a special Tax....
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
lol lol very hard, tit for tet, butter for fat seems to be the order of the day
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AnotherTaxPayer

Posted 234 days ago
@ Undress
Is there another special tax that I'm not aware of?
That's if you can get people to pay tax in the first place. no money, no service = no service, no money

pik_it_up

Posted 234 days ago
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God has finally heard our prayers!
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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
and where is this "true democracey" ? do we have it here on THIS planet?
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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
Sorry, the above was not meant for you
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
no we dont have true democracity, i mean you have the Wall Street Gang (rockafellas, obama's, bush's) going around burning and alooting any country they so please to do so and to top it off, donating the UN building and also controlling the mony affairs of poor states ie how long has Africa and rest of the world been poor yet can afford guns to tople governments. You have Isreal (which will never stop killing Palestinians) founded only to have a christian influence in Muslim land which contains tons of oil which the Wall Street Gang needs.

ArseneLupin

Posted 234 days ago
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The ANC government does not want to upset Communist China - our biggest trade partner. Hence this absurd snub to the Dalai Lama. Welcome to democracy - Africa style...
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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
"African Style" as opposed to what?
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
maklek

''''''"African Style" as opposed to what?''''''''

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Opposed to true democracy - not a bunch of communists who operate under a veil of democracy !
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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
and where is this "true democracy" ? do we have it here on THIS planet?
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
International Democracy Ratings

1 Norway
2 Sweden
3 Finland
4 Switzerland
5 Denmark
6 New Zealand
7 Netherlands
8 Ireland
9 Germany
10 United Kingdom

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Need some more spoon feeding ?
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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
Hehehe, shame...poor sod...you honestly believe that?

by the way, does it not seem odd to you that there is no developing country in your list? and don't you then see nothing weird about comparing the "economic choices" of a developing country to those of developed countries?

By the way, are communism and democracy mutually exclusive?
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
''''''''poor sod...you honestly believe that?'''''''

=====================================

Acknowledged all over the world, but you, MR SOD, will question it !!!!!!!!!!!!
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
China is not communist, it is very much capitalist, America defeated those old fool tales of communism during the cold war, China had to adopt free market policies (capitalism) for economic growth.
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LilfordLesabe

Posted 234 days ago
opportunity cost, we please one man who is inconsequential to the lively hood of the economy.
or we align our self with the next power block. questionable responsible to the strengthening of our 4-5% primary produce sector. i.e. mining

i say let the Bishop rant, its not the first time he makes a noise over issues he is not sound about. in the words of Gen. Bheki Cele he must "shut-up" and concentrate on.... (something about him not being a deputy.. ) #justsaying
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Taboy

Posted 233 days ago
@SuiGeneris
I wonder where RSA would lie on this list...?

Almostover

Posted 234 days ago
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Aybo it nt ABOUT ANC TUTU is against ZUMAS I wish he can die afta his party lol usenesdina and he is a disgrace to South Africa
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Gaara

Posted 234 days ago
As long as the party dies first.
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
Hypocrytes conveniently colluding the party with government, yet they are the ones who scream the loudest when the ANC blurs the boundary between party and state.

I think there are people who are desperate for the demise of the ANC. Troubled as it is, I do not see the party dying anytime soon if ever. Instead it will renew and reconsitute itself and still be at the helm of south african politics.
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Taboy

Posted 233 days ago
@Almostover. I think you bear the appropriate name for the ANC!!!

Undress

Posted 234 days ago
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The Arch is old and tooo emotional at times. He is saying all these unsavory things because he is personally inconvenienced. It is about time that he sees things beyond himself.
The government fumbled on the di lama visa issue, but for tutu to then become melodramatic and compares thsi government to the apartheid regime is unwarranted.

The last time I checked he was retired from political commentary.
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Gaara

Posted 234 days ago
Last time i checked we were all entitled to our opinions?
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
and we are all entitled to RESPOND to people's opinions.

Joe-Higgins

Posted 234 days ago
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Hey Mr Zuma, you and your government don't represent anybody other than your own interest.

Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
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Why are we supposed to pretend that the Dalai Lama is an Angel? What is the track record of his Dynasty (the one he descends from) as far as Huma Rights go (prior and During the Chinese invasion) ?

While I hold no brief for the ANC as a party,one can not overlook the Need (of any developing country) to always "remember what side their bread is buttered on"

And The "Whites' moral somersault " is amusing to say the least, hehehehe...when Tutu calls for a "white tax" - He is a senile old racist......but when he throws his toys in air over the Dalai Lama - He is a "voice of reason" ....Gotta Love this here country :-)
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Highway

Posted 234 days ago
everyone is entitled to an opinion and when public figures make statements its useful to debate them and make informed decisions, like you and me, what they is not cast in stone...and no one said the Dalai Lama is an angel, neither is Desmond Tutu nor Madiba but what they represent is what matters...and how they represent....
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cANCerSurvivor

Posted 234 days ago
A bit unrelated but since you mention the white tax lets go there. Who would you classify as white? And does that include the whites born after 1994? What about other whites who moved here after '94? And does that include comrades Cronin and Craven? And what about the whites who have since left the country? And what about the whites that were in the Progressive party back in the day that actually fought against the apartheid regime?

LMAO ... white tax! LOL!!
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
cANCerSurvivor

Very good point !


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Mahlek'ehlathini

Posted 234 days ago
I am not the one arguing FOR "white Tax" remember? It is "Vice Jesus" Tutu who did, ergo I do not have to determine which whites are liable, that responsibility resides with Tutu
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
Certainly, the logistics around 'white tax' should be explained by the little bishop as mugabe would describe him.
However, coming to think of it, I do not think it is as difficult as projected to pin down white people and determine who should pay such a tax. There are whole lot of mecahisms that can be used to ensure that those who benefitted from apartheid and their descendants are charged an extra tax.
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
you have to love this country and its diversity, that is what makes us unique. and yes as an emerging market we cant bite the hand that feeds us and the only reason why some people want to bits that hand its coz they are economicaly safe and to hell with the rest of us who are unemployed and are poor. and the whole two faced thing that some people have going on, its not Halal- Ayoba ps? i would love to know if JUJU started preaching like TUTU, would thier perception of him change as it did for TUTU

MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
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Aweh, Arch!

Still an icon in the fight against injustices internationally.
What a man - a fully paid-up human being!
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
you should continue singing him praises even when he says you must pay a special tax as whiteys for the unfair gains you got during apartheid
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MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
I agree with him on the tax, as well as his position on Palestine. In fact, he is very well equipped when making his pronouncements - they are not knee-jerk comments.
He supported the Palestinian cause only after conducting many personal visits to Israel and Palestine. He proposed the tax only after having had personal information released during his years as chairman of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. His current reaction is due to his lifelong support for oppressed people worldwide. He may have retired, but his religious conviction dictates that he speak out against injustice. Nothing wrong with that!

zwelinapster

Posted 234 days ago
Avatar
It definitely looks as if the ANC and the Zuma administration have made a 100-points check-list named 'How to disgrace ourselves completely' - and are firmly sticking to it no matter what - whether through bad choices or appointments, passing bad laws or constantly being challenged in courts, criminality, attempts to suppress media, corruption, arrogance and abuse of power, snubbing transparency and accountability, local or international scandals, suffocating free market and entrepreneurship, leaning towards commie demagogy etc.

They didn't even have the guts and decency to openly reject the visa application and provide reasons. Instead they stalled everything till the last moment and hid like cowards.

Welcome to the new reality and to the consequences of 2/3 majority.
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
lol George Orwell 1984 you have hit the nale on the head and its a pity it has come to that but i think we all need to look at what legacy we will leave for the kids

Mercenary

Posted 234 days ago
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A true stalwart of the struggle,someone needs to start taking out these corrupt leaders one by one,they playing with the lives of people.

MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
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"The trouble I think is that the ANC reckons that the freedom that we enjoy is due to them. They reckon everyone else is just a sideline,"

How sad but true! Those who actively opposed apartheid in uncomfortable circumstances within the country, got the short end of the stick when the ANC started dishing out jobs to their cadres. The role of the broader UDF community (made up of a wide range of multiracial civic, religious, educational, etc bodies) who are well qualified to assist in democratising our country, was overlooked in favour of exiled ANC comrade cadres.

UDF unites - ANC divides!
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
Who the f.... tells you that the ANC overlooked other contributors to the fight for democracy.
How much do you know about politics? It seems like it's not much that you know.

Where the hell do you think Lekota came from, as well as Gwede Mantashe, Jeremy Cronin, 'Kortbroek' van Schalkwyk, Themba Godi, Mangosuthu Buthelezi, Barney Pityana, Sipho Mzimela..........the list is endless, and besides, it's useless trying to give facts to a fool like yourself.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
4khomotso

''''''How much do you know about politics?'''''''''''

========================================

Mr Knowall......Your comment is a dead give-away that you live in a perception vacuum, and that be YOUR perception of what is right.

There is a massive difference between what you might perceive as right and the truth and nothing but the real truth
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MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
I'll ignore the foul language, and put it down to your upbringing.

I didn't serve time on Robben Island, gave MK training a miss, didn't seek exile in neihbouring countries, wasn't imprisoned, etc. The closest I got to the apartheid policemen was hurriedly dispersing after class boycotts at our school after serious threats by the boers.
I suggest you do some research on the UDF, as judging from your list of names you obviously are either clueless or indoctinated with false ANC propoganda.
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
I suggest you do some research on the UDF, as judging from your list of names you obviously are either clueless or indoctinated with false ANC propoganda.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you only care about the contributions that were made by members of the UDF? It is only them that you want rewarded for their contribution? Is that the sense I get from your response?

I mentioned a list of individuals that were not 'overlooked' by the ANC, but were included in government. Instead of acceding that they were not members of the ANC, you instead refer me to the history of the UDF. I am tempted to refrain from my language of upbringing, but you force me to keep to it. F...you. ANC is a broad church, we welcomed former apartheid bas.tards in our movement for the sake of democracy. Who would have imagined that Wouter Basson will be a free man under the ANC government after he killed so many Africans?

Avatar

Undress

Posted 234 days ago
the problem with such argument is that it pressuposes an artificial divide between ANC membership and UDF membership. It fails to take into consideration the issue of dual membership.
How would you explain the suden demise of UDF when formerly banned political formations were allowed to operate? The answer is simple. The same people who used constite UDF found political expression via the ANC.
It is like saying COSATU should form a political party simple because you tens of thousands people marching under the banner of COSATU. What you forget is that the same people have ANC membership.

The UDF talk exposes a lack of understanding of the south african political landscape
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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
IN Basson case, An eye for an eye will do. coz i just dont see him changing his perceptions about those that live in RSA. SO yes and EYE for an EYE will be the thee most fair thing the state can do, if not take all his wealth and give it the families he wronged QA

Bukes

Posted 234 days ago
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If Govt is disgrace he is a DISGRACE himself who woke up and made him God so he can judge our President and our liberation movement. He should know better than to belittle others.

Happy birthday Tutu enjoy it before you get older again.
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MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
I don't think he is judging the ANC liberation movement - he is condemning the ANC political party. The gap between the two is very wide, and widening daily! In fact, very little of the principles of the ANC liberation movement is currently reflected in the principles of the ANC political party!
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ACP

Posted 234 days ago
The president is already judged by many factions within the ANC itself, and found wanting! So why can't the Archbishop? His prayers for the demise of this travesty of what was once a noble movement can only be welcomed.
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
The good news is that none of tutu's stupid prayers will be answered. God is wise and not beholden to narrow political partisonship.

Again, a typical example of white guilt trying to rewrite history in order to cast itself anew. What is the 'wide-gap' between the ANC as liberation movement and the ANC as a political party that people are talking about? Obviously slight differences will be there, necessitated by the ned to govern. But at value/ principle level, the ANC is still the same party that ushered south africa into democracy.
There white guilt is too have for many, hence the sudden pose by many whites that they have always been on the side of justice. First, they did not support apartheid; second they wer part of the liberation struggle/ UDF; and next time they will claim to be black. This convenient metarmophosis is really sickening.

We all know that apartheid had agents/ actualisers and 98% of those were whites.
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
The liberation movement is something that no longer exists. Please, live in the present, Bukes, not in the past. Where is the liberation when millions who were promised basic services are still desparately without? Where is the liberation when service delivery riots happen regularly? Where is the liberation when corruption is a way of life? Where is liberation when the matric rate is dismal? I mean, this is a decade an a half later....you would expect there to be a little bit of movement!

You are hanging onto yesterday's illusions. Open your eyes to today's reality. Why would there be such an outcry in this country if there was no discontent simmering below? There would be none....there would be no story and the Arch would have been irrelevant. Clearly this is not the case and if you cannot see that he has touched a nerve in this country, then your eyes are closed.

The Arch is simply speaking the truth as he did when Madiba chose HIM (not you) to run the Truth and Reconciliation Council. So please, before you give your holier-than-thou speech, study a little history of your own country. Do you think you could do as much for people as he has? Try stepping up! I challenge you.

samsam

Posted 234 days ago
Avatar
At first he said he wont vote, wont recognise Zuma as President would rather live for London, his comment after casted his vote he said " I voted differently ....." all that comes down as bitterness for wasting his vote , check his rantings " the ANC has majority, NP had majority bitted the dust.........."

Back to crux of the matter, Dalai Lama was suspected of his political activities, it was nt mere a birthday party visits per se, denying him a visa was a blessing in disguise now that we know what was the party all about from his friend Desmond Tutu.

The fact of the matter is , Chinese invested huge funds to create jobs in SA, should this not be in the interests of investors the people who voted ANC unlike Desmond Tutu wont suffer when the investors pull out.

The message is ANC will never bite the dust in my times, believe me
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dwnwitjuju

Posted 234 days ago
Why are the Chinese so worried about The Dalai Lama?
Is one speech in SA going to change anything the Chinese do or say? No. China is one of the America's biggest trading partners, yet the USA grants The Dalai Lama visas on a regular basis.

If you like being the lap-dogs of the Chinese government, then so be it. But do you really think the Chinese give two sh1ts about you? They want resources - plain and simple.
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ACP

Posted 234 days ago
The Chinese invested huge funds to create jobs in SA??? What are you smoking?

On match day I proudly wear my "official Sprinbok shirt" with label that says "made in China" and my "South Africa" cap that is made in China! And occasionally I get out my 2010 World Cup shirt that was....oh yes I nearly forgot, made in China!

But I forget that the Chinese are right this minute investing large amounts into our clothing industry to create jobs at the expense of their industry. Get real!
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Elaborate exactly which Chinese company is creating jobs in SA, or which companies & projects the Chinese have invested in???

China is the ANC's friend, not South Africa's friend!
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
ProudySA

are you even aware that China owns 51% of standard bank? the largest representing the largest foreign direct investment in the country to date.


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MrJikelele

Posted 234 days ago
samsam,,,, you are definitely dumbdumb.
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
Was it really a blessing in disguise? How much more worldwide publicity is now focused on the cozy South Africa and China relationship than if they had just allowed him in the country.

What is the meaning of the constitution, which so many have died for when it is sacrificed so easily? Is life that cheap?

The reason SA needs huge funds is because it did not know how to govern properly in the first place to create wealth and its own autonomous internal success story. Therefore, it has to enter an abuser / abused relationship where it must kowtow to the master.

South Africa's ANC is appearing very much as if they have been caught red handed because of their obvious manipulations. And now the Times has evidence that they were going to deny him a visa when the govt mouthpiece said that they were going to give him one....how foolish they appear! Bungling. Oh what a web we weave, those who set out to deceive.

SA could only be in this position to invest with China because of people like the Arch. Every aspect of this country owes a debt of gratitude to people like the Arch and His Holiness who fought alongside him to win your hard earned freedom....the same freedom that allows you to now criticize them. See how it work?



Bonganani

Posted 234 days ago
Avatar
All faith based organisations; Christians in particular must pray for the demise of the ANC power. The extent of moral bankruptcy of the ANC key leaders from president, ministers to police commissioner makes a mockery of constitutional rights for the majority of the citizens. In a morally bankrupt government, some are more free than others for the mere fact that they belong to so and so family or are politically connected they have more privileged than others. No standard procedure can be applied to these people, and rules apply to some not to them. Work ethics within government institutions are lacking. In a country where a head of state is known to have multiple sex partners in and outside his polygamous marriage, we cannot hope for better and equitable gender parity, because such behaviour does not foster gender balance. He has cheated on his wives, not once but twice, even after assuming the high office. Our society is degenerating into social decay and it is slowly but surely on the slipery road to constitutional decay. You see constitutional processes and procedures within the ANCYL are not well managed and these are future leaders. One can only hope and pray for nothing but the demise of the ANC power, if what is going on inside the ANCYL is what awaits the broader SA society when these guys takeover the country leadership.
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
There are pressing prayer items than that Bonganani. There are problems of poverty, inequality, racism, exploitation of farm workers, etc. These need urgent divine attention than the demise of a political party

OTTOOTTO

Posted 234 days ago
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Archbishop is like a baby throwing tantrums just because he wont be getting jumping castle for his birthday. He has no support to overthrow a government like Bishop Dandala tried to do wish his COPE. So many other cleric have tried the same cheap shots of morality and dragging religion into the fray. It simply doesnt work that way Archbishop Tutu and you knew the rules before you even began with the invitation. You didnt vote for Zuma so why do you expect him to jump at your whims. Those who voted for him want jobs, houses, health care and he is doing all he can to find investors (in China) to create jobs. Yes the visa application was bungled as is everything else, unfortunately. Deal with it and get a life.
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ACP

Posted 234 days ago
Yes the visa application was bungled as is everything, unfortunately. Your should add "as is everthing else the ANC touches, unfortunately!" Look around you at the graft, corruption, general inefficiency or are you really so selectively blind?
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
Tutu erases all that he has stood for by losing his 'cool' to the amusement of invisible forces that are operating behind him.
He was refered to as a lunatic a month ago by the white people when he said they must pay rich taxes. Now that he tickles their fancy, he suddenly becomes their icon. It's a shame to have 'loose-necks' in our midst.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Khomo -> what has the Dalai Lama got to do with white people??? I dont think white people give a damm who visits and does not visit SA. If anything, it is black people who are running out of patients with the double standards of their so called liberators.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Ottootto -> so when it suites the ANC, support oppression as long as it gets Chinese investments??? And how has Chinese investments ever benefited SA, or do they just benefit those in the high ranks for the ANC??? Please elaborate on any company that is Chinese owned that has created a material amount of jobs???

I can name you quite a few British and American companies that this country is reaping plenty reward from, and yet they are seen as oppressors.
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Undress

Posted 234 days ago
Tutu is an attention seekers who always likes to play to the gallery.

It is OK to be critical of government (I myself am - very much so in fact), because ceratinly there are a number of things that sucks with the ANC led government. However, the problem with tutu is the manner in which he is doing this. He is an alarmist who always like to throw tantrums like a spoilt two year old.

To say the ANC government is worse that the apartheid government is to commit a cardinal sin, which he must apologise for if he wants to enter heaven when time ends. His statement is an offense to black people who lived under apartheid state.
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
He has clearly touched a nerve in this country. He is speaking up as he did many years ago. Remember what happened when he spoke up? Up yes, he helped to prevent bloodshed in this country....allowing this government the freedom to try out democracy and giving you the Chance to live in one. How quickly you forget!

It's so easy to sit back and criticize others. What have you done for your country today? How much impact have you had?

Of course everyone wants jobs but if the government isn't so ineffective and corrupt, it wouldn't have to sell out the country. It would develop the resources, especially the human resources properly and create wealth. Instead, you have a completely dysfunctional education system. No wonder you have to get into bed and prostitute yourself!

Get proper people who know how to govern in power. Then it would not have to be enslaved to the world's bully. I don't know about you but I don't like to live in an abusive relationship...do you?

dwnwitjuju

Posted 234 days ago
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His Holiness The Dalai Lama should have rocked up at O.R. Tambo unannounced - just like most of the people who visit SA, and get a 30 day tourist VISA.
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Joe-Higgins

Posted 234 days ago
...that is very possible... you made my day.

4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
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Tutu is a joke. As he has always been. Robert Mugabe knew about this 'little man's' tirades.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
Want to see a real JOKER - Look no further than zuma !
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
and Robert Mugabe is not a joke? Even his own party has been exposed for wanting his dismissal.
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
@ Sue Generis

Sometimes people get lost at their moment of euphoria they even forget to make sense, yourself included.

Tutu just exposed the selfish minion in himself by his outbursts and people, especially white people, doesn't take notice. It's not the first time that Dalai Lama makes a visa application. First time it was granted, the second time it was declined, now it's his third application and it has not yet been approved nor declined but already white people are losing the screws that bind their brains, not that they have any.

Why didn't Tutu make the same claims as he is making now on previous applications? He is making this stupid rants because it's his birthday and he wants to 'pop' balloons with Dalai Lama, not that he cares about Dalai Lama's visit.
HE JUST WANTS TO PLAY WITH DALAI LAMA ON HIS BIRTHDAY - FINISH AND KLAAR.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Khomotso -> its not for you to speculate why Tutu wants the Dalai Lama to visit SA. This is about the ANC supporting oppression when it suites its interests, yet it is at the fore front of fighting oppression, as long as the oppressor has a white face.
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MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
"It's not the first time that Dalai Lama makes a visa application. First time it was granted, the second time it was declined, now it's his third application..."

At least quote facts if you want to put up an intelligent argument. The Dalai Lama has visited South Africa three times already - he was the guest of both Presidents Mandela and Mbeki!
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
''''''''now it's his third application and it has not yet been approved nor declined but already white people are losing the screws'''''''

================================================
''''''''The Times has learnt reliably that the government was to inform him yesterday that his application had been denied.'''''''''''''''

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I will just refer you to my comment much further to the top to confirm once again that you live in a perception dream - your own dream.

When you wake up - Call me !
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
@MisterWendal

...At least quote facts if you want to put up an intelligent argument. The Dalai Lama has visited South Africa three times already - he was the guest of both Presidents Mandela and Mbeki!...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah right! What happened after Dalai Lama visited SA on the previous occasions? Did Tutu mention anything about the atrocities of the Chineses government? Did he care about the suppression of the Chinese labour force? Did he praise the SA government for granting the visa on those previous occassions?

Why the sudden outbursts from this 'little man'. He was in fact the reason the apartheid government took so long before it released Pres. Mandela, because he was always touted as the first SA black president.

While at it, ask yourself why the New Zealand government refused to give Dalai Lama a visa. The Lama is not only a SA problem.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 234 days ago
4khom

''''''Why the sudden outbursts from this 'little man'''''''

======================================

It is clear that you always belittle anyone who is against zuma.
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4Khomotso_4rom_Attridgeville

Posted 234 days ago
@SueGeneris

...It is clear that you always belittle anyone who is against zuma.....
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I am not belittling anyone, Tutu's name of endearmet is ''the little bishop'', don't you know that?
Just like Basson he is known as ''Dr Death'', Marthinus van Schalkwyk is ''Kortbroek'', The late Botha was known as ''Die Groot Krokodil'', Ter'Blanche was known as ''Mof.fie'' -
Are you refering to these terms as 'belittling'? Think again, don't get all worked up over nothing.

Do you know why New Zealand refused Dalai Lama entry? Stick to the topic instead........
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
Robert Mugabe is a joke. As he has always been. Tutu knew this about the crazy man. Poor Bob Marley....imagine how embarassed he would be today!

QuestionAll

Posted 234 days ago
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I am always bemused by the public outburst of religious leaders.

There are always consequences to actions. He should have thought of that back then when he affiliated himself with the ruling party.

And anyway, who is the Dalai Lama that he should get special dispensation that the average person does not??
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zwelinapster

Posted 234 days ago
"And anyway, who is the Dalai Lama that he should get special dispensation that the average person does not??"

Perhaps you should direct your question at the Chinese Communist Party instead?

The bigger issue here might not even be the Dalai Lama himself - but rather the undeniable now proof that the Chinese Communist Party has officially and literally bought the ANC - and thus indirectly bought South Africa?

How does that feel?
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Why should he not get a visa??? Anyone is entitled to get a holiday visa to visit our country, even terrorists and dictators.............Mugabe has harmed more people the the Dalai Lama, yet Mugabe frequently visits SA.
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mmba

Posted 234 days ago
Right on the spot 1984, the issue here is not national interest, or the fear that china might cancel trade agreements, but rather the small matter of the anc(not sa citizens) receiving hundreds of millions of rands in funding from china commie party.
That is what the anc is protecting, more than anything else.
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
You can bemused all you want....he's raising a big awareness globally with his bemusing outburst!

The Dalai Lama gets no special dispensation....he gets the opposite, or have you not been following the news? It's obvious to anyone who can read between the lines (but not to someone who doesn't) that he has been shafted, to put it mildly. And now, the Times has reliable proof that they were going to deny the visa to him....quite contrary to what the government mouthpiece said that they were going to grant it to him...oops...SNAFU!

A high percentage of all marriages fail too. So why do people bother getting married?...because they cannot predict the future. Why did he affiliate himself with the ANC? Isn't it obvious? Of course he's affiliated himself with the ANC because there was hope back then. Didn't millions affiliated themselves with the ANC for the same reason? There are consequences to actions....are you saying something other than 1 = 1? Your line of argument is predicated on being able to see the future and is illogical.

MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
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Thuli Madonsela better hurry up with her current cases - there will soon be one pending for the Public Protector dealing with this pathetic disaster!

Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
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The ANC is a disgrace, this government is a disgrace and all of it's followers are a disgrace. They have taken a hopeful country from riches to rags and will continue doing this until this country is totally destroyed or/and looks like a second Zimbabwe.

Things like this make me sad to be a South African eventhough I belong here more than the ANC and it's followers. They do not represent me either! I am proudly coloured, a label that I embrace cause I know myself!

It is with sadness that I admit that one day we will probably have to take up arms to fight for our freedom once again!

I will also pray for their complete downfall and I believe that God will answer my prayer, as I am a true believer. One can say that these comrades do not believe in God. They are communists hiding behind the veil of democracy.

I will not build my house on the foundation of oppression, lies and corruption. None of my bricks will be supplied by communists who do not believe in the rights and freedom of the people. The ANC is riding a slippery slope. They sold this country out to communists! Their foundation is weak and will surely crumble and give in.

They depend on their follower's ignorance and are not disappointed!

Why oh why, Mr De Klerk did you give our country to communists? Do you have regrets cause you see what is happening to our beautiful land? Is there perhaps a cool-off period, so that you can cancel this contract and give the country back to it's people? I am only hoping here.

We will reap what we sow. The pigs are already devouring what the people has sowed. Lift your eyes towards the Lord before it is to late.



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Bokoloshe

Posted 234 days ago
I dont get it, please tell me who the hell said that khoisan were here first and please dont tell me its the Europeans, please dont tell me its them. please do tell me of another source which proclaims with evidence that the San were here first coz you really cant take the word of a PIRATE, THIEF, KILLER OF SOCIETY, please do tell who said the San where here first

dopla1967

Posted 234 days ago
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Because Tutu led many marches during apartheid time does not mean that this governement is oblidge to nurse him. If he is uncomfortable to be led by this government of President Zuma, he must please go to other counrties where everything he wants will available. This governemnt is for everybody not for Tutu. He told us that he retired from the public platforms but now he is deep in politics of dividing this country. As ANC members will not tolerate anything that undermines our government. He must just visit the nearest grave and just die. ANC will be around for the next 100 years with or without Tutu. He must also focus to his family because his son is unable to feed his family and he hands off ANC. Tutu is economical with truth as the Archbishop because no Dala Lama was refused visa.

ANC4life
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
You definetely sound like a communist and an ignorant one as well. Oh, you will not tolerate freedom of speech? I know i'm wasting my time with you cause your mind is to messed up to understand anything above or beyond the ANC communist agenda. You will surely reap what you are sowing then you will cry out for help to the same people that you are now trying to oppress. Ja, ride the gravy train and get fat while you can, cause it is a short journey!
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cANCerSurvivor

Posted 234 days ago
Typical indoctrinated ANC loyal cadre's comment. Your human need to feel part of something of substance has unfortunately latched onto politics. Whats tragic is that you don't even know it and will deny it...

This Dalai Lama situation has shed some light on exactly how far we are up the Chinese bums and who the ANC is scared of. What about all this talk of empowerment and black conciousness?!

I'm sure its much more to do with the money though. Isn't there a Zuma and a Gupta who are getting a HUGE deal from the China Railway?!
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
so as a ANC supporter you support oppression in Tibet??? this is going to be an interesting answer from a so called former victim of oppression!
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davidmlaba

Posted 233 days ago
The Arch speaks more for the hearts of the people than the government does. Why else would there be an oucry if this wasn't the case? If there was no resonance between what he said and what a lot of people feel in this country, there would be NO story. ZERO. Yet, it's headline in every paper, every radio talk show, websites, twitter, facebook, social media all around the world. Open your eyes and ears and see what the reality is instead of living in a world of your own projections.

A lie told enough times becomes a truth that those who buy into manufactured consent are easily fooled by.

"As ANC members will not tolerate anything that undermines our government."...very telling...you said the government FIRST before ANYTHING else....the ANC members are for the GOVERNMENT, NOT the people!

Why must you use that language of force?....NOT TOLERATE...is language of control and fear, not openness and sharing. It's consistent with the way this country is being run, isn't it?

The Arch is for THE PEOPLE, not a government that does not represent them. That sounds more like true democracy to me...and in line with the Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street.

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Achilles1967

Posted 233 days ago
@ davidmlaba

I could'nt have said it any better. Great words and explanation! Thanks and well done. God Bless you.

proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
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The ANC is a Chinese puppet party, the Chinese scratched the ANC's back during the fallacy called "the struggle" and now its pay back time.

We all know the oppression that is happening in Tibet is no different from oppression that is happening in Israel and even oppression that happened during apartheid, the Chinese see the Dalai Lama just like the Nationalist Party saw the ANC. Yet the double standards of the ANC on this so called "equality, non-racial, pro-democracy, pro-freedom" slogan they have is more than pathetic and fake. As long as it is in the interests of the ANC, so oppression and equality is allowed to make way!

proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
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inequality in my last sentence

Brats

Posted 234 days ago
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I am so glad I am not an Anglican because Tutu is a man that holds grudges, he still refers to the state of the nation speech, he is an arch yet his statements are of a threatening nature now we know how we have bogus people in religious grounds.

On the visa, is it a right?

Tutu, is this party not going to happen without Dalai? If so why don't you have a second round of your birthday somewhere in Australia or New Zealand and that you can have him there if you so wish, we can't have people throwing their toys out of the cot we have a lot to deal with in South Africa already than worry about spiritual leaders to entertain their friends.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
So when it suites the ANC, oppression is ok??? The Dalai Lama was like the ANC in the 40s 50s 60s 70s traveling to China, North korea and Russia to rally support to fight white minority rule in SA..................that was considered a moral standing by the ANC. Funny how the policies change as soon as they tasted real money and power after 1994. Chinese puppet party!
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MisterWendal

Posted 234 days ago
The Dalai Lama's visit involved much more than a birthday party - besides he doesn't come accross as a party animal anyway!

"The Dalai Lama had been invited to attend Tutu’s 80th birthday celebrations, deliver the inaugural Desmond Tutu International Peace Lecture, give lectures at Wits and Stellenbosch universities, and accept the Mahatma Gandhi peace prize in Durban."

Imagine the inconvenience to all the international and local invitees to these lectures, not to mention the organisers, The Desmond Tutu Foundation!

PolyTix

Posted 234 days ago
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The biggest hypocrites imaginable.

So typical of a dysfunctional political party. The despot Aristide was however more than welcome, our dear anc entertaining him to the tune of R40 million over 5 years. The anc also went out of their way to embrace the tyrants of Myanmar. Gaddafi and Robber Mugarbage all firm favourites of our beloved anc

The anc also made huge fools of them in the UN Security Council bu also siding with the dictators and skunks of the world.

Isibhanxas – all of them

StraightToThePoint

Posted 234 days ago
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That is what we call the Gospel Truth. Thumbs up Arch!
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Brats

Posted 234 days ago
what is??? in your opinion a Gosbel truth, the USA refuses people visas all the time nobody throws their toys outside like Tutu is doing, can he honestly get so hyped up just because he wants him to be at his party??? Please he is not doing anything to resolve the problems we have as a country (Tutu) he criticises without bringing solutions so ja he got what he deserved a no guest period other wise he is most welcome to join him wherever to have a braai there if he really wants to see him. Sorry Dalai it was a wrong man who invited you...
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Brats -> the US did not refuse visa's to the ANC when they ANC needed help during the apartheid days infact all western countries allowed terrorist groups such as the ANC to operate and have talks on their soil to defeat oppressive regimes.

The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
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its interesting now that the same white commentators that lambasted the Arch for a white tax and calling him names are now calling him a hero.

Anyway, its obvious why we cant give the Dalai Lama a VISA, we cant risk FDI since China is our biggest trade partner. Not the UK or USA but China.

All the government had to do was communicate its reasons to the public.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Please elaborate what FDI China has given to us and has created jobs, because i can show you 100s even 1000s of british, american companies in this country that have created the majority of jobs.

And is the FDI from China you talking about not FDI only for the high ranks of the ANC? So the ANC supports oppression in Tibet, as long as there is this Chinese FDI? and oppression is ok as long it is it not a white that is the oppressor?

Do you even know the size of the trade deficit that SA has with China, which means on the trade side of things, China is raping us???

As for a white tax, it is basically only whites who are currently carrying the country with taxes.
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PolyTix

Posted 234 days ago
Two totally different issues. Tax and visas don't mix.
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PolyTix

Posted 234 days ago
ProudySA. The Chinese is directly to blame for the collapse of our textile industry and the loss of thousands of jobs. The Chinese are the present day colonists. They have a stronghold in basically all African countries. Did they not built the billion dollar retirement palace for Robber across the border?
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
your anti ANC rhetoric clouds any good point you might make.

China is our biggest trading partner...an economic fact that means we do more business with them than any other country in the world. FACT.
Germany is 2nd.

All other points you make are OPINIONS derived from your anger with government. NOT FACTS.

please go to the SARS website where the info your looking for is readily available.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Afrikan - trade partner means nothing when your trade deficit is at disturbing levels, no country in the world has benefited from been China's trading partner, lol the ANC has got you all hooked on the belief that "biggest trading partner" means success to SA.........haha economics 101 would teach you otherwise.

try googling -> trade deficit and then try SA trade deficit with China

proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
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all the ANC die-hards are worried because there are black people in SA who are starting to get impatient with the way things are done!
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Brats

Posted 234 days ago
I am a proudly ANC call me what you will but that does not mean I will be blinded by the wrongs of the party so if you think us die hards are only worried now you are sadly mistaken, however I am not sure of what impact will the Dalai visit have on us as the majority of the people, I am getting impatient with the slow pace at service delivery for my people but I could not give a rat's as.s why is the Dalai refused to come to South Africa just to honour an old friend's social calender surely all the people at Tutu's institution are bored souls who will do anything and everything to get cheap brownie coins.

I dont see them having vigils over a number of people that get killed on our roads, I don't see them marching to parliament over secrecy bills, I don't see them outspoken about young people who can't get bursaries yet the very same Tutu institution gives money to the already monied for overseas studies so you tell me what has the coming of the Dalai has got to do with me as a South African? It is not called impatience when people are not granted visas but when services are not delivered so Tutu must make up his mind what he wants to tell us.

He had never made a secret that Zuma does not represent him am just wondering what is he still doing here because Zuma is still president, I don't mind him attacking him on his approach as a president but he must not be all over the place grasping straws.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
What happened with the visa is the summit of the top of a large mountain of f*ck ups the ANC has done............black people are starting to see how the ANC operates, how this visa decision will filter down into their decision making when it comes to development and service delivery.

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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
I wonder how you as a black person would of reacted if Britain has forced the ANC not to allow the Dalai Lama into SA............different ball game then hey?
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
proudySA

black people have always thought that way...even before you and i were born. Come election time they just choose the devil their more comfortable with i.e. ANC over DA.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
afrikan -> all i said it that there are black people who are starting to realize that the ANC is not the revolutionary party it has slogganed itself to be.

dopla1967

Posted 234 days ago
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Tutu can pray 100 time he is not GOD. ANC will remain with or without Tutu. If he plays a Dalai Lama cards to undermines our government he will not win. If he want to participate in politics he must form his party but first he must ask Dandala how tough in politics is.

vatiekakie

Posted 234 days ago
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Tutu is not a real Christian. doesn't Christianity preach forgiveness and turning the other cheek etc? He should be FORGIVING the ANC government for not granting the Dalai Lama a visa. he should be saying "forgive them father for they know not what they do..."
and we South Africans just love fighting over nothing, who is this Lama anyway in the greater scheme of things? and Tutu should fight his own spoilt-brat fights for his birthday toys like the lama.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
you worried because there are black people making negative noise about the ANC? Im sure there are millions of like minded black South Africans who support Tutu on this. Im sure they asking, why does the ANC dislike the Dalai lama?
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Highway

Posted 234 days ago
i suggest you make comments of things that you understand based on facts not on your own perception which can be decieving, Christianity does not teach people to turn a blind eye in the name of forgiveness, when what they stand for is trampled on for cheap political mileage and greed..."who is this Lama anyway in the greater scheme of things?"...you are using the internet...dont be ignorant...google it or something and find out...and for your own information the ANC knows exactly what it is doing...otherwise...quoting you we should be up in arms if we have a government that does not know what they are doing!
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Brats

Posted 234 days ago
I strongly agree, no true Christian talks like they way he does, he is threatening the peace of the state making referencing to behaviour caused by countries in uproar. It is time he packed up his toys back to his cot because nobody will pick them up for him so he is just being his usual nuisance that never has anything good to say or any positive criticism which is not a bad thing.
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vatiekakie

Posted 234 days ago
@proudlySA, I don't get your comment. are you sure it was meant as a response to my comment? my comment was that as a Christian Tutu should be doing more FORGIVING than attacking, unless he is now a Muslim and believes in "an eye-for-an-eye" and he failed to tell us. so your comment doesn't really make sense is relation to mine. well, on another note, I hope the government denies the Pope a visa next time, and many small boys will celebrate.

Brats

Posted 234 days ago
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proudySA

It was figuratively that the US refuses visa (that does not mean it does not happen) having said that the idea was that people do not cause a national crisis over it, Tutu wanted a friend to come for a social event what has that got to do with the urgency???? I can hardly think not making it to a friend's party is a national crisis unless of cause he wants to add to his cronicles that he had him come to his house or to his birthday. Would you then say we really need to have such a national interest in this story???? How many people are refused Visas and especially those who genuinely need it, why is Tutu not an advocate for those who are not granted visas, I just think he is behaving like a typical spoilt brat who always want to have his way with everything and sadly it does not work that way.

I don't think it is fair for him to personalise the matter to Zuma because it just makes him sound like a bitter and sore looser he should attack the DIRCO people Zuma does not grant visas although some might argue that he has influence as he does with all the other departments but don't cheapen your cause by being petty, he needs to play the ball not the man.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
People in the US are NOT granted visas on the basis that they are criminals, usually drug dealers. The US has gone against China's threats of "it will hurt relations" if they have a meeting with the Dalai Lama because the US stands by its beliefs whether they are right or wrong. They dont change their stance like the ANC is forever changing, once a party against oppression, is now openly supporting oppression just because they owe China a hand job.

The Dalai Lama is a peaceful man, who is obviously a massive threat to China, who knows what this man has to say that China fears will be exposed...........guess the National Party was worried about the same things when the ANC made frequent visits to London and Washington.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
The real issue here is that you are worried that there are black people who are growing impatient with the double standards of the ANC.
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
Look at history and you will see that the previously oppressed always becomes the oppressor. Nothing new happening in South Africa. They carry much hatred and resentment and will therefore bring about their own downfall as they try to detroy their enemy, no matter what.

There is a great lesson to be learnt here! At times I cringe to be a human being in this world with so many ignoramuses in charge. I foresee doom only, as prophesied in Revelations

The Dalai Lama is not an average person(like you), he spreads a message of peace and hope for all the oppressed. And by the way, Zuma is supposed to be the president and he has the last say, so Tutu is right in pointing at him. Zuma is a poor excuse for a leader and more of a puppet than anything else. He is being used and uses others to enrich himself and his family. The stupid poor will stay poor with people like him in charge!

I fear that you, supporter of the ANC, will bite off your own tongues one day. I rest my case!

Razzo

Posted 234 days ago
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Last time i checked it was the office of International Governance and Cooperation that was handling the Denial Lama's Visa application and not Luthuli House (ANC)......it was an arm of governement and not a political party.......but I could be wrong, maybe visa applications are sent through to the ANC's head office as some have suggested.....Tutu's outburst was based at the ANC and not the department........but we understand, he has never like JZ anyway.

Brats

Posted 234 days ago
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proudySA

again, i have been twice refused visa to the state with my boss, for stupid reasons we had official passports, plus attending the G20 so don't tell me bull because being issued with the visa is at the discretion of that particular state hence the american are the most horrible when it comes to allowing peeople in with their processes so I am not understanding your assertation. As must as we can speculate on why he was not granted the visa it still does not make it a right for him any state has a right to refuse my point being how many people are granted and how many are refused why is Tutu making this a national crisis is what I am trying to find out from you it has nothing to do with the people of SA hence I fail to understand your assertation of the visa not being granted and the fact that we are growing impatient of double standards, if maybe it was a criminal act or fraud you could link the two where I would most likely agree with you but as of now am not sure in what way are you referring to double standards? Visa was not granted and we all know that the SA gov has links with China so what is a double standard there because from what everyone is saying it is clear where SA gov loyalties lie.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Because the Dalai Lama is not a criminal nor a terrorist, nor any national security threat. He is a threat to China, which is why this was a Chinese decision made by the ANC. The double standards is that because the ANC was meant to support anti oppressive movements around the world, yet when it suites them, the ANC supports oppression, as long as the oppressor is not a white face.

The decision not to allow the Dalai Lama was to protect Chinese interests in Tibet.

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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Its true what they say, THE OLDER YOU GET, THE MORE YOU BECOME LIKE A CHILD. Here, grandpa Tutu is more angry that things did not go the way he WANTED them to. Even if we were to go with the perception that most people are advocating that RSA is dancing to the Chinese tune. What would the Dalai Lama's visit or attendance to the Arch's birthday party benefit benefit the majority of this country?

China is RSA biggest trading partner and as such, their feelings matter on this issue (those in the private sector knows that one's biggest shareholder holds a bigger influence in an organisation.

Mina what I am glad about in this matter is the following, "the Dalai Lama - who first applied in June for a visa to visit South Africa - withdrew his application because he did "not want to create any inconvenience to anyone, individuals or governments,"

Grandpa needs to remember the following Usixolele izono zethu njengoba sibaxolela abasonayo.

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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
China been SA's biggest trading partner means nothing when our trade deficit with China is at disturbing levels -> check SARB 2011
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
ProudySA

The USA trade deficit to China is the largest in the world....$252 billioin 2010, i guess their trading also means nothing.

Razzo

Posted 234 days ago
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Proudly SA

Adam Habbib, a political analyst was denied Visa into the US and he is not a criminal or terrorist. Speak factually before blindly defending.
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Brats

Posted 234 days ago
Thank you... And where was Tutu and his entourage then to throw their toys out of the cot when that happened.. Eish people like to say things that has no substance at all just to get an argument.
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
proudy - doesn't know who Adam Habib is...

and i don't think most of us agree with the government's decision...some of us understands the reasons that money is king of all devils.

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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Afrikan - he was some professor in JHB at the university, he was denied access into the US because it was believed he was a terrorist, happy?

proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
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Razzo -> it was believed at the time that he was engaging in terrorist activities. Like i said before, the US stands by our policies.

What is SA's reason for not allowing the Dalai Lama in??? maybe because big baas china might throw a fit because the ANC is in huge debt to China for assistance in the so called struggle?
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
so its okay to "believe" that an innocent man is a terrorist?

So whatever the US does you believe in? where are the WMD?

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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
America was attacked by terrorists they have every reason to be cautious. The Dalai Lama is of no threat to SA, only a threat to China, which is why the ANC made the decision, they forsake their belief of anti oppression, to support oppression, just because they owe CHina a hand job.

Razzo

Posted 234 days ago
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The VISA WAS NOT DENIED BY THE ANC BUT BY THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION WHICH PROSSESES AND ADMINISTERS PEOPLE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY...........NOT THE ANC...........NATO ALLIGNED PRESIDENTS COME TO SA FREQUENTLY BUT TUTU DOESNT MAKE A NOISE.........they are murdering people everyday in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, LIBYA, but everyone is quiet. We trade with these countries all day.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Razzo - it was an ANC decision, dont act like an idiot.

The middle east is a different issue to tibet.

Brats

Posted 234 days ago
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proudySA - "he was believed to have been a terrorist' - does that not translate to each state reserve a right to grant or refuse, secondly a visa is applied for in advanced hence that particular state needs to certifiy themselves and the US will even call you for an interview just like UK to certify themselves and you would have had proper documentation from reputable institutions so at what point do they then decide you are a terrorist becasue that is done prior to granting? Again they exercised their rights and in this case Tutu should go and stand at DIRCO offices and stop bucking at a wrong tree because he is making himself look like an ideot for not knowing where is the visa granted.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
When your country was attacked by terrorists, it gives you the right to be cautios....that mean did not represent people in oppression like the Dalai Lama does. Why are you defending the ANC's decision? Do you support oppression? Any fool knows, this decision was a hand job decision for CHina.
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
Brats, you sound like someone that has had a "comfortable" upbringing in the new SA. You are probably around 24 years old, have a chip on your shoulder, was heavily indoctrinated by your hate mongering elders, that is why you show no respect to Mr Tutu. He was at the forefront of the struggle so that you may enjoy the fruits of his labour. You are a disgrace and your children's children will be disgraced with your attitude. You have no morals and are a gravy train passenger. Get the hell out of my country!
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
ProudySA

you defend Tibet but say Palestian is a different issue...How so?

Does China oppresses Tibet?

Does Israel oppress Palestian?

Is the US, UK led war in Iraq not illegal under international law?
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Afrikan - if you read my previous comments, i said that i dont agree with what is happening in israel and i believe the jews must leave the west bank and gaza alone. As for the rest of the middle east im not going to comment because im not 100s sure of the situations in all those countries. I am 100% certain about my country and i know the history of the ANC and what has happened today is we have seen the ANC go against its beliefs, which clearly has exposed to the ANC to be a puppet party of China, and you "afrikans" of all people around the world, hate puppet parties, so i dont see a future for the ANC if this kind of in bed with the chinese is going to continue
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Afrikan -> i cant find where your wrote this but somewhere you said that a chinese bank owns 51% of standard bank, which is absolute bull, they only own between 20 - 30%, which is mostly standard banks assets in Zim, Argentina amongst others. Im still waiting to hear from you about the 1000s of chinese companies in SA that south africans are benefiting from?
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Brats

Posted 234 days ago
proudlySa

It is wrong of you to say this is an ANC decision because it is a DIRCO decision, processes are not the same, secondly I can hardly call this an oppression because he is coming here for his social visit to an old friend why are we held hostage by Tutu? Tutu does not represent me so he better stop saying we people of south african because I have my own views and opinions so does he, and he must focus his energies on looking forward to his birthday party and not on one guest who can't make it so I am not sure what is the hoolabaloo is about this whole thing really. Is it a national crisis or should we view it as such??? I think not.
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The_Afrikan

Posted 234 days ago
proudySA

at least we agree on something.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Brats -> the people of tibet are oppressed (by China), for god sakes, read a book or something.

Also research on the history the ANC (not South Africa) has with China, then maybe you will understand why there is an out cry in SA and why it was an ANC decision.
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Brats -> im not denying the fact that the ANC is also in bed with the UK and the US, cause clearly the Libya decision was an American decision made by the ANC. When is the ANC going to deliver the sovereign South Africa is promised?

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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fact is, some of us here (especially those that are anti-this govt), our comments have nothing to do with the Dalai Lama's visa matter. Comments are motivated by the disgust people have on the ANC and the democratically elected govt.

I would understand if RSA was the first or the only country (a developing democracy or developed democracy). The US, Germany have done, my god, the England PM, snubbed the Dalai Lama when it was there.

The bigger picture is that, there should be uniformity in terms of how diplomatic relations are handled and managed. Just to digress but also driving a point home. Not so long ago the US and some Euro countries pushed for a resolution (a) "protect" Libyan citizen from a dangerous regime (b) effect a regime change etc. Germany, France were part of that.

But only late yesterday, Germany, Russia & China, vetoe-d a resolution to do the same in Syria.

This illustrates a point that there is more than what meets the eye when it comes to diplomatic relations and how they are managed and handled.

People need to get on with program. R 20 billion earmarked for RSA's infrastructure development being brought by China is much worthwhile than a visit of the Dalai Lama, the more than 13 million South Africans living below povertry line won't eat the visit, but with the R 20 billion, some will get an opportunity to put food on the table for their families.

This is what should have guided grandpa Tutu, as it did with the Dalai Lama
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
Which 20 billion rand infrastructure project? how many jobs are been created for South Africans, who are the indirect tenders?? What does the infrastructure consists? Be more specific.

The fact of the matter is is that the ANC and its history is based upon fighting against oppression all round the world, yet they are a bunch of wimps when it comes to the oppression in tibet, which clearly shows ANC foreign policy is not about fighting oppression but fighting for its interests, just like every other government in the world, the ANC is just another greedy political party who does not care about freedom or justice

MsLee

Posted 234 days ago
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I suspect Tutu has given voice to the feelings of many South Africans who believe the ANC-led government has betrayed the democratic ideals defined in our Constitution. My own experience of running an active civil society advocacy group has made it clear to me that it's no longer possible to work with the ANC, which clearly feels it's above the South African people and unaccountable to them. Its demise (one way or another) is the only way out of the progressive (and increasingly precipitous) failure of our democracy.
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
I agree with you 200%, but as long as the majority(mostly uneducated and brainwashed) vote for them, this country will beg for food in the next 20 to 30 years, if not less.

Their demise can only come about by force as they will not by themselves admit the damage that they are doing. Their only agenda is to live it up while their "poor comrades" starve to death.

bongozozozo

Posted 234 days ago
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who does Tutu think he is? He is not the government, if he wants to be in government then he should campaign and be in it. otherwise Dalai lama should not come here. Two years ago the same man was refused a visa then why should he make noise about this now
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
Tutu is a citizen of this country just like you (I presume) and I and as such has every right to speak out. I for one applaud him and agree with him...the ANC are China's little lapdog and will bend to their every whim...

vatiekakie

Posted 234 days ago
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the ANC behaves like rural chiefs (people should serve them as opposed to being the servants of the people). there is no difference to the behaviour of the ANC leadership and that of king Mswati III

proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
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I think the ANC needs to educate their supporters to let them know exactly what the ANC stands for, because clearly not even Malema himself is not even sure anymore. People are very confused, is the ANC revolutionary or counter-revolutionary
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
lol, lol, lol, lol some more, truer words are yet to be spoken here, lol some more.

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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What did the Dep Pres of the Republic conclude when he was in China.

As long as there are some South Africans that continue to call Black people in the min (uneducated & brainwashed), just bcoz they differ with them on the choice of whom they want to lead RSA and her children, the more we will sit on opposite lines and our RACE will be the determining factor
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
I voted ANC at the start(two terms, Mr Mandela and Mr Mbeki) but if I continued voting ANC, with a rape accused president, cover ups, corruption, etc. then I will call myself also uneducated and brainwashed. Fortunately for me, I understand what real democracy is all about. I have nothing against race, but those that want to destroy my country. So there it is, Comprendo?
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proudySA

Posted 234 days ago
cant answer my previous question, so you play the race card, just proves that you have a hollow head

Alexio

Posted 234 days ago
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The hypocrisy on the SA government beats me. They are quick to protect dictators like Gadaffi and Mugabe, individuals who go on to stab them on their backs. The Dalai Lama is coming as a private visitor and not a visitor to the government. If India, a member of BRICS can accommodate him fulltime, seeing as through SA does not want to raffle feathers of its BRICS partners, and Obama can host him as private visitor, what does SA stand to lose by allowing a private visit? We seem to posture and attract attention for the wrong reasons.
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
Hehehe! and because of this anc government, the world thinks that all South Africans are stupid, lol. "Ahh" they think, "probably still running around in the streets with assegais, being chased by Lions, clad in only a piece of skin to cover their privates." Hehehe! We attract attention all right.

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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@ Alexio, fellow compatriot, unfortunately, that is how diplomatic relations game is played. RSA, she is not the only 1 who does this. By the way what is a dictator? 1 May say the same abt the countries you like and respect.

Achilles1967, show me 1 country that has neva did a cover up?, just 1. Secondly, whether you voted for or against the ANC is irrelevant for me. That’s ur choice & secret, which all Freedom Fighters & RSA liberation movements fought for.

To me what matters it is how you place ur argument. How u project ur feelings towards RSA and what is ur perceptions abt the Black People and the ANC as an organization & its leaders.

Its like this nonsense abt corruption. I really don’t think it is BIGGER THAN what people make it out to be.

If I look at how the world find itself in a recession, and who was responsible for it, how those responsible have never been brought to book (by the way there is not a single ANC person there nor a Black person involved there), I just go, “we sure like blowing things out of proportion. Like those idiots that believe that Tupac and Notorious Big we assassinated”. Capiche
ProudlySA, your arguments are the same as Juju’s too much rhetoric, insults and very thin on truth & substance.
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Achilles1967

Posted 234 days ago
You are comparing apples to apples. I am interested in cleaning my own house, not my neighbours. How daft can one person be?

I am sure you find it irrelevant that the average person also fought in the struggle to end apartheid, as they are not the ones enjoying the fruits of this country like all your gravy train comrades.

On the topic of black people, first, all races except whites were classified as black when the anc came into power, but when the handouts started, they were reverted back to coloured, indian, etc. So that only comrades and a few sell-outsenjoyed the benifits. Secondly, black people don't have an automatic ownership of this country as there were races here long before you were driven here by your own ilk.

And don't try to minimize the anc's corruption, because it is at the detriment of the poor of this country. You unfortunately, are one of those who are confused as stated by ProudySA.

samsam

Posted 234 days ago
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this old man was hit where it hurts the most, there is saying that says dont bite the hand that feeds you

Economic.Lieutenant

Posted 234 days ago
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Oh boy, he can be such a drama Queen this one!

Didn't he say, the other da,y that he has done with public appearance?

Talk about someone who's obsessed with media attention. *puke*

zwelinapster

Posted 234 days ago
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It is good to have threads like this one once in a while - where all lootfreelian trolls can be drawn out and counted.

They will be the ones instrumental in guilt-tripping everybody for having an opinion by evoking subtle racial/racist innuendo, or in telling you that there is actually almost no corruption.

Otherwise we might just forget what a propaganda and demagogy in all their glory actually are?

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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If it was some else, it would have been understandable. But its a Christian, who once held a high office in a Christian faith. For him to react this way and instead of responding to the issue.

Secondly, I know for a fact that he does have the president's number, he could have had background discusion with the head of State regarding this. Especially when it was discovered that there were certain outstanding things from the Dalai Lama's side.

What he did last night, is the same antics he performed before the 2009 General Elections, by declaring that (a) He will not vote (b) that uNxamalala was not his president, few days later he comes back and says give Zuma a chance and he never disclosed what they discussed with the president. His conduct, is rather opportunistic

AnotherTaxPayer

Posted 234 days ago
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"ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu said last night: "We are appealing to the archbishop to calm down and work together with the ANC and its government, first, on the Dalai Lama issue and, second, we appeal to the archbishop not to pray for the demise of the ANC-led government, but instead to work together with the ANC and pray for the ANC-led government to deliver a better life for all the people of South Africa.''

Spin doctor backpedal...

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 234 days ago
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....Master China is a 'trade partner' with SA (or any other 3d world country) like a fox partnership with the local chicken coop........They take the prime materials, and drop large quantity of poor quality products (Bok-Bafana T shirts proudly 'made in China').

.......Of course it is far easier with a dumb partner, easy to take personal 'appreciation tokens' under the table on condition of absolute obedience.........But the Archbishop surely knew this for long time........

Any political embarrassment for the Zuma/ANC government is well worth a pocket full of Benjamin Franklins............

Vikingblood

Posted 234 days ago
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What a shame ANC. Don't you see that you are not able to govern your country wisely? Thanks to the respected Desmond Tutu, I hope he makes your eyes opened and get rid of the ANC by next election. Or perhaps an ''African Spring'' like the ''Arab Spring'' is the way to go. And how can a serious government explain their refusal to grant a visa to Dalai Lama by such stupid explanations. I think that Mr. Zuma soon will be in same category as Mugabe and Gaddafi for us Europeans.

Ndlwananhle-kayi-1

Posted 234 days ago
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Good thing, that the Global village is not as short sighted as you minority priveledge ones in such platforms

Wheretoknow

Posted 234 days ago
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It is sickening to see how so many whites especially on this forum have so many double standards. Tutu is an attention seeking old fart, that needs mental help.

If a white run gov had to deny the same Visa they would all be quiet.Deny this idiot, it is the ANC run Governemnts right and perogative.But due to a black run Government refusing it they are all on the band wagon. Tutu is as two faced as them all.


Face it you so called graduates, China will rule the world soon, as the biggest economy at present, America, owes China Trillions of Dollars in debt, accept the fact that soon all will be made in China, including most African leaders. Those that have the money has the power.....

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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
You are speculating regarding white governments denying a visa...
Can't wait to see you and your ilk do a turnabout when the real reason China is 'helping' Sa comes to light and you finally see that your ANC has sold you down the river for a handful a gold...

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 234 days ago
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.......Indeed!..."Deny this idiot, it is the ANC run Governemnts right and perogative." (sic). Right and prerogative are well enforced by a pocketful of Bejamin Franklins 'made in China' in this case.....
....China will own Africa soon. They know how easy is to buy their governments........
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Razzo

Posted 233 days ago
bis_k'hallawaya

At least the Chinese dont kill the African Governements via Regime change or Structural Adjustment Programs (SAP's) like US and NATO alligned governements.......

zwelinapster

Posted 234 days ago
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"Face it you so called graduates, China will rule the world soon, as the biggest economy at present"

So what's this gloating about? Are you prepared to surrender to your new masters and become a slave to a one-party ruthless communist dictatorship - with all repercussions? Have you heard the saying what goes around comes around? Are you sure you are gonna like it when they are done with you?
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 234 days ago
.........and yet, they moan because they are called "uneducated and brainwashed"....for no reason at all?........
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Wheretoknow

Posted 234 days ago
Try and get of your pedestal, as you will be included when "they" toss us away on to the rubbish heap, you will be no exception my friend, wake up and realise that worse is still to come, evil will prevail , corruption will prevail, theft will prevail, bad will rule over good first, this is reality, you are entitled to your opinion , but to deny facts due to your "holyness" is denying your face when seen in a mirror. What will be, will be. I am not in support of it, but we are going to have to face it, come what may.

Razzo

Posted 234 days ago
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Guys, I was not aware that everyone at DIRCO was from the ANC as much as I am not aware that everyone in Govt is from the ANC.....

Let me ask: What would we prefer here as in our national interest......the creation of jobs via China or to be politically correct and piss off China?

If China had influenced our Govt to stop the Dalai Lama's visit, from where im sitting, I would honestly prefer to side with them and see this investment through rather than pi$$ it away just because it was seen to be politically correct to do so........*Think national interest* and not personal interest.

And again, this was the Govt's decision and not the ANC.....VISA's are not issued at Luthuli House....Some call me stupid for saying that. I guess its a stupid fact then!!!
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Wheretoknow

Posted 233 days ago
Razzo

Well said, well stated, glad someone can grasp the facts.

Should China be pissed off with us, and jobs are shed the same isiots here will blame the ANC GOV, difficult to please those that dont want to grasp..
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
""""""Some call me stupid for saying that. I guess its a stupid fact then!!! """".......No need for help, you're doing just great!.........
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
Oh I see...so their gross human violations and style of dictatorial governance doesn't bother you? And when they have milked this country (and continent dry) and left nothing but a void and unfulfilled hope who will you go crying to...the West...again...and blame THEM for the woes YOU have created.
See that puffy bit of flesh protruding from the front of your face? It's a nose...try looking further than the end of it...for a change. China are not here to help anybody but themselves...hmmm...kinda like the elite at Lithuli House actually....birds of a feather I guess.
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Razzo

Posted 233 days ago
Rogue, in my books, like earlier stated, i would rather support the Chinese coz they atleast dont go around, Wild-Wild West style, bullying and murdering the whole world coz with them "it is either you are with us or against us". They are the worst terrorists of all using terms like freedom, democracy, peace and protection to bomb innocent non-white countries.....need I remind you of Vietnam, Chille, El Salvadore, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya......and watch it, coz if you dont cooperate, they will be coming to a country near you........if not yours....

Rogue, like i said, i would much rather prefer doing business with the Chinese (call them the new oppressors if you want) but I know that they never colonised anyone and nor did they bomb any country to effect regime change for their benefits.
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
@ Razzo...I think you need to pick up a history book NOT written in Chinese to get a better view of the world China exists in...check out their track record in Nepal, Tibet and further back in Korea, Japan, Afghanistan and while you're about it...check out the situation in their OWN country. The only reason that they haven't invaded any other country further afield is due to logistical mobility. Do yourself a favour and read up a little regarding China's strategy for world domination...they aren't going to do it with bullets and missiles thay are going to do it in the boardroom and parliament and once they control a countries government and economy there will be no defence...

Revolutionalised-Biko

Posted 233 days ago
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Even if it was the Son of Man coming here we will still need to follow the due processes of granting the Visa. This is a country that is govern by laws and not the Wild Wild West and not one is above them! It is unfortunate that the Arch and his group of neo-liberals who passionately hate this government didnt get their way of doing things cowboy style! Their way his reaction was expected and we are not suprised! Life goes on!!

Wheretoknow

Posted 233 days ago
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Bet you 80 % of the great graduates on this forum, dont even know what this Dalai Lama and his so called peacefulness stands for, a hoax. Do you even know what he represents, without copying all other stories from all other gutter journalists , and so called informed idiots?
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zwelinapster

Posted 233 days ago

Rather be an informed idiot than an uninformed one?
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
........OK!.....so you are uninformed.......Tell us what he represents......
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
I tell you what...why don't you give us your one-sided version of the "truth" there? Should make for interesting reading...BTW how's your Mandarin coming along? Gonna need to be fluent if you want to impress your new colonial master!

Wheretoknow

Posted 233 days ago
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When in Rome do what the Romans do, ... this spiritual leader means nothing and adds no value whatsoever, we must look after those that help us, as one graduate here said, dont bite the hand that feeds you....another double standard statement.
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
Funny how he was revered by your party during the struggle and for a period post-1994 but now that he disagrees with the ANC he is dismissed and villified...typical of the despotic mindset that plagues the ANC and it's followers hey

Razzo

Posted 233 days ago
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Eeisshhh.....I think thats called "Hitting the Nail on the head" there Wheretoknow

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
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.........HA HA HA.......as an old saying goes: "God creates them....the Devil unites them".......

Beelzebub

Posted 233 days ago
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latest world headlines
ZUMA AND COMPANY BOW DOWN PROSTRATE FOR CHINESE IMPERIAL MASTERS

Taboy

Posted 233 days ago
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Tutu for president!!!
Watch out ANC, watch out!!!
Your supporters are still to awaken out of their slumber and see the current government for what they really are...

Razzo

Posted 233 days ago
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With so much support for Desmond Tutu, I sincerely hope you will still shout "Tutu for President" when the "white tax" comes into effect......

Rogue, we still revere the Dalai Lama as an importnat person but he is and shall never be far above our collective national interest (note collective and not individual) of SA. At this point in time, we need jobs and not a prayer!! (no pun intended there as i re-read my last sentnece - lol)
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RogueTrooper

Posted 233 days ago
I was talking about Tutu not the Dalai lama...
Also, I don't believe that you do hold the Dalai Lama in reverance because if you did you would not be supporting the facist, despotic, human rights violators that is China...their track record sits in the same folder as Stalin, Gaddafi and Mugabe to mention but a few of the ANC's other heroes and friends.
It would seem that you support the ANC's notion of selling out the youth of this countries future for a handful of gold....love to see how you feel about the Chinese 'help' in a decade or so when they have left Africa depleted of it's only real economic power...it's natural resources and left nothing of value behind while your 'leaders are kicking back on some tropical island sipping cocktails and singing struggle songs...

POST94

Posted 233 days ago
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At 80 the Archbishop is a dissapointment. He is tooo old to have tantrums and throwing toys. Madiba and other retired struggle stalwarts are probably not pleased with this situation but they understand the bigger picture. They have probably called President JZ for his side of the story. By equating the ANC with the apartheid National Party, the same party that brought incomparable pain to the masses, Tutu has shown his true colours. Maybe the apartheid masters were kind (in some way) to him. You never know.
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
.......obviously, you don't know many old people..........Madiba, is senile now and most likely unaware of the current political reality, otherwise that would have finished him off....Yet, his age is not an obstacle for the satraps of the ANC to use him as a puppet in time for elections (remember Zuma et al, hijacked him from home to parade him to the moronic masses as if he was supporting Zuma and gang).....

.....Zuma does not know what Dalai Lama and what a visa are, by his own public acknowledgement.....It is not his field......

A dictatorship on the right or the left is.....a dictatorship...........

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
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.....razzo....

"""""At least the Chinese dont kill the African Governements via Regime change or Structural Adjustment Programs (SAP's) like US and NATO alligned governements......""""""
______________________________________________________________________________________

Correct!!......The Chinese don't kill African Governments....The Chinese and every other one interested, BUY the African Governments given their love for easy money.......The Chinese don't bother to kill,..... they leave that to the African Governments........

Lepara1

Posted 233 days ago
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Arch Bishop, there are about 4 fingers pointing at you!!! The man of God Swearing and making threatening remarks. Surely you don't expect heaven doors to open so easily, more especially being 80, there are not many days left for you Sir.
As for the Dalai Lama, its Economical boost from China or Dalai Lama's SMILE!!!
Leave Politics to Politicians, it is 17 since democracy was reinstated while on the other hand it took Verword over 40 years of Apartheid enjoyment in our country.
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BarryPotgieter

Posted 233 days ago
Desmond,my buddy, thanks fot putting a curse from the Ancestors on Zuma and his "Comrades" and any person reading this,dont laugh and scoff at the Ancestors,you WILL come very short.

JohnnyEnglish

Posted 233 days ago
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The ANC moral compass disintegrates further.

I did not think that was possible !
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BarryPotgieter

Posted 233 days ago
"You thought it was not possible,it has always been a FACT and we were waiting patiently for it.

inkunzi

Posted 233 days ago
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1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
1 Timothy 2:1-2 (NKJV)
-----------------------------------
So Arch, which bible do you read? I bet God will not hear your prayer to bring down your government. Besides, this is a personal matter and not a national crisis. The lama would have done nothing for me but eat cake with you. So take it up with the relevant dept and let's keep Thuli's Madonsela's important work on the front pages. That will make a difference in my life.
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 233 days ago
""""""The lama would have done nothing for me but eat cake with you."""""........(Typical) african credo: "what's in it for me?"........