Again and again we see how governments do not work for the people especially in South Africa... Every citizen in this country has the RIGHT to know what is going on and how their hard earned tax rands are being spent/swindled/stolen... We should demand transparency, it's my money, it's your your money... Leaving the decision making up to a bunch of psychopathic, greedy, power hungry puppets is clearly not working! Trust is earned and this government does not deserve our trust.

WHAT OLD APARTHEID CENSORSHIP TRICKS ARE STILL HERE????

Cry the beloved country, cry. What can we do when the majority are too intellectually challenged to vote these criminals out of power. Time to say good bye.

"What can we do when the majority are too intellectually challenged to vote these criminals out of power"

It is these kinds of comments that pull our country back. I wonder who these 'intellectually challnged majority" are in your thinking.
I think people should be democratic and mature enough to respect the manner in which people decide to cast their votes. This is what democracy is all about, to accord people the right to make their own choices, and accept the outcome of such choices even if they are not in line with your own life tastes/ preferences. Certainly, if you cannot respect this basic principle of demcracy, then maybe it is time to pack and go try life elsewhere.

On the topic at hand, Maharaj is just playing delay tactics, the inevitable will happen and the truth will come out eventually.

@ NeoBlack...you said "I think people should be democratic and mature enough to respect the manner in which people decide to cast their votes. This is what democracy is all about, to accord people the right to make their own choices, and accept the outcome of such choices even if they are not in line with your own life tastes/ preferences."
Explain this then...the people go out and vote in the National and Provincial elections and vote with their heart (ergo...vote for ANC) and then a mere month later they are trashing the streets, burning councillors houses, blockading roads etc in protest of poor service delivery or corrupt politicians/councillors or high electricity rates for metered power or or or... How is that "accept(ing) the outcome of such choices (their vote)"?
Unfortunately the majority in this country do not possess the political maturity to understand the principles of democracy. I do however take note that after 44 years of legislated Apartheid under the National Party trust in anyone other than your self-proclaimed liberators does not come easy BUT surely faced with the undeniable evidence of self-enrichment, corruption, decaying services and society in general under the rule of these so called liberators...sanity should prevail?!? How do you keep voting a corrupt and inept government in and then weeks later complaing about the state of the nation? We are 17 years into our democracy...it's time for people to understand that we need to vote for our future, a future of real economic freedom that is not race or relationship (with elite) based. we need a party that will effectively address education, health, crime, security and job creation...not one that talks a lot but deliver little as the ANC currently does!

ANC..... ALWAYS have been LIARS.... and ALWAYS WILL BE LIARS!!!!

Just cannot get to tell the TRUTH.... as it is NOT a Pedi, ZULU or Xhoza word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell... in Maharaj's case.... not a Hindi word EITHER!!!

CHARR-O and the TRUTH?

Thats a FANTASY!!!

Yup...the smoke and fire theory.

@Mnbvcxzo: Okay, good hatchet job.... now go to Luthuli house and collect your pieces of silver. You probably proclaim to be a supporter of Freedom-of-Speech.

@ mnbvcxzo

''''''''The minister in the office of the President is not a private citizen and therefore it's in the interest of the public to know about his conduct.'''''''''''

==========================================

And that should include anything......good or bad as long as its factual and the truth !!!

Mnbvcxzo sa id "the M & G arrested if ever they publish such a story."

...

You must be from the past. As in Russia. What are you saying. That the right of one corrupt politician ducking and diving behind suspect so called laws is above that of the long suffering tax payers right to know who is stealing their money. Go live in Zimbawe, or Cuba or China or North Korea. Viva Mail and Guardian Viva.

@ masana

''''''''If they have found the information leglly i dont think they would be any problems'''''''''

=======================================

Example.....

How many investigators use ''less than ethical'' ways to obtain information while investigating, for instance, a case of murder and get the information needed to get a conviction ?

It seems that there are no screws missing in your brain. Good thinking, at least someone still thinks for himself, some have delegated the thinking part, or outsourced it. Anyway, why does the M&G cry wolf? They want us to feel pity for them, anyway their newspaper is not worth the R23 they charge. I'd rather read the New York Times or spend the R23 on a bucket of golf balls to hit in the driving range.

So you confirm that the ANC's stance on corruption and lying is that you must just make sure nobody can get to the truth legally then it is OK. You can steal and lie as much as you want just don't let the people have a legal way to find out. Now I understand the push for the new secrecy bill.

The law has been bought by the criminal ANC .Don'yt you get it? Are you not the least bit interested what the most respected Znewspaper has found out about someone that is the presidents spokesman? Or maybe your a man with something to hide

.....3rd world politicians (snap back), is to find out.....

This is how the elite in the ANC want things to be...they already consider themselves above the law (just look at the blue-light brigades). They cannot stand to be criticised or called out for their nefarious activities so now they want to clamp down on the media reporting on the same so they come up with a Stalinist notion of "state secracy" and "classified information" and empower almost anybody in the ANC deployment program to classify information and all of this to be enforced on the threat of ridiculously long prison sentences.
I seem to recall another party in this country that not so long ago practiced the same type of draconian politics...then there was a popular uprising from within and outside the country that toppled them and today that lurk in the realms of extiction. Perhaps a lesson for the current despots....erm....regime???

The journos are not above the law but it would seem that your beloved parties elite are!

I happen to enjoy reading gibberish, it's quite refreshing. Try it, it will do you no harm.

Reading the Timesalive and M&G has been proven to cause mental depression though.

Mac M is an old crook who could not explain how a R100 000 cheque from a certain Shabir Shaik ended up in his bank account.

All I can say is that I am not a fan of a certain race of people as they are a sickness to the earth. They are all impossibly evil and it's just too hard to understand that they are even called human. I know this because even the earth refuse to take them in when they die. She is just too disgusted to even hold them. That is why they invented cremation, they think the air will not be so disgusted at them but they are wrong! Only fire awaits these people, they think they can destroy earth and then peacefully rest in it? Even water has vowed not to embrace them anymore. They have no place here on earth, their spirits are wandering, forever. Fake religion will not save them, creation stands in judgement against them. Beware of the the four elements of life which you use to destroy the earth and its inhabitants. Blacks love Whites, Whites love Blacks. Time is short, time is nigh, a great destroyer is at the door, to seperate falsehood from truth. To purify the earth and prepare the world for a just system. Whites stop hating Blacks, they are of the same flesh and blood as you. Your light skins are hiding eternal darkness, your invetions are not signs of the Light but a knowledge obtained from dark forces to control the world. Prophets of long ago predicted your rising to power and your destruction as Ancient Babylon.

@ Mnbvcxz0

I read your comment a few times, and not only I have no idea why is it posted as a reply to mine, but I have no idea how is it related to the article above. I also think that the first half of your comment directly contradicts the second. You definitely do not seem to be practising what you preach.

If the idea of transparency, of being informed, developing awareness and holding corrupt politicians and/or shady businessmen accountable is not your thing - maybe you are reading the wrong news site or posting in the wrong forums?

Sorry this had to stick to your comment. Do you know the truth meaning of the acronym AIDS? Well once you know, youl'll know how evil the ex govt and its voters were. In esoteric terms, if you write anything backwards, you are reversing its meaning. For instance; if I wrote ASR instead of RSA, I am saying anti RSA. AIDS = African Invented Disease South. Reading backwards from last word South, then first word African then read everything as is. Then you get South African Invented Disease.

Thank you my black brother.. I have been equally disgusted at the one sidedness, self-righteousness, derogatory and neo-apartheid rhetorically motivated comments posted on this website towards black people and black leadership by a people who have the least right on the entire planet to speak about democracy. Thank you for joining me in making these comments fair and balanced as unfortunately there are many uncle toms who were agreeing with everything the whites say on this forum. The atrocities comitted during apartheid are second to none No-One even Milosevic, Stalin and Hitler did not come close(hitler being the closest)!!Can you compare any other regime that placed uranium in peoples drinking water?? That wanted Nuclear capabilities to use on its own indigenous people and fry women and children with the after effects of radiation a la Hiroshima & Nagasaki (deformed babies just to paint a picture for you) the only thing stopping them was the fear that that very radiation they wanted to use to fry blacks could possibly also fry them. No government or regime ever dreamt of nuking people in their own country I repeat No government ever thought of perpetrating such evil not even the US government,the british, Saddam or totalitarian China ever thought of perpetrating such evil!! Its sad things like TRC(despite its best intentions) have not only blinded us to believe that the victims' eternally scarred psyches have healed, but they have allowed these same ghouls and fiends who were responsible to walk among us with the arrogance of a serial killer who got away with it. Some of them can even hide behind computers and post nonsense like the comments we see. A very, very sad story for Humanity!

@OTTOOTTO

A long diatribe to justify why Mac is not an angel. Soft Target you say.

He represents the highest office in this country. If he is not squeaky clean then he should not be there. Simple really. He is very welcome to open a shop somewhere and conduct his business the way he wants to, but not in the office of the President.

@Tell-It
"..The atrocities comitted during apartheid are second to none No-One even Milosevic, Stalin and Hitler did not come close(hitler being the closest)!!.."
------------------

Get real man. Do you even know what those despots did ?

* Stalin's excecutions of his own citizens in 1936 to 1938 was probably about 1,000,000
* Stalin himself killed 43 million people.
* The Communist regime, 1917-1987, murdered about 62,000,000 people, around 55,000,000 of them citizens
* How many people died during the Ukraine famine ?

Random statements like these make your deliberations a joke.

@ Hi-Jack.. Yes I do know what im talking about the overwhelming majority of those people died during the Bolshevik Revolution and the Civil War that followed it.. They died as a result of War between two warring factions with opposing ideologies not one-sided racial genocide i.e. the 1st million u quoted were mainly the Tsars army and the tsars supporters at the hands of the Bolsheviks. The second deaths u quoted most of them were deaths comitted between the Red Bolsheviks and the White Bolsheviks in a civil war!! The rest of the deaths of which I admit they were many happened in the gulags, the apartheid gov. equivalent being the land reserves where blacks were sent to labour and many died of famine and exhaustion- no difference there. Besides the famine deaths were the result of a botched economic policy and not a concerted effort to murder people based on a self serving racial ideology as was the case with apartheid. Stalin's deaths mainly came from deaths during famine and people being overworked same thing in SA just because the numbers due to population size dont match doesnt make what happened there is any different. Stalin died in 53 when Russia had nuclear capability but not even Stalin was evil enough to contemplate using the Nuclear Bomb within his own country on his own people. Thats what makes the Apartheid regime way way more evil.The deaths of the Soviet Union regime and the undocumented deaths of Apartheid are probably proportionately equal and we dont even want to think about how many more deaths would have been committed had the Apartheid regime lasted as long as the soviets- probably unrivalled in number not just percentage wise. As for your comment about Maharaj it sounds like ur saying that bcoz he is indian the only thing he is capable of doing after being in government is 'running a shop' we both know what you meant by that and that is a prime example of what I am talking about. Here is a man occupying as you have so adequately explained occupying one of the Highest offices in the land and u reckon that when he leaves he should go and run a shop?? Lemme gues cos all Indians own and run shops and Maharaj is just another Indian?? Laughable Stuff. Thank you 4 proving our point.

@Tell-It

I qouted you different time frames and role-players. The revolution and civil war happened in 1917, right?

Atrocities attributed to Stalin came way after any revolution / civil war, makes 43 million. How do want to justify that? Whatever reasons you want to use is inexcusable. Populationize does not come into it.

You do not understand the nuclear concept. You think SA wanted to use it against our own people ? You must be crazy man. You think the Apartheid Gov wanted to bomb what ? Soweto ?

If you live in the US you bomb Japan. Note. A few million miles away to use your over exaggerated logic. Nobody is that stupid.

If you really believed that, then have a re-think man. It will kill everybody in SA

In so far as Indians go. I have proven nothing whatever you wanted to insinuate here. Mac represent the highest office. If he does not want to, or cannot keep his nose clean, he should run his own shop. Be his own boss, and make his own rules. Until then, fit the role assigned to him.

Since we are being factual you are now changing your statement that you first mention 1936-38 now all of a suddent its become 1917.Hmm. Okay. Yes SA apartheid government planned to use the nuclear weapon specifically on surrounding African states as well as on the black South African population which is one of the main reasons blacks were moved out of the main land area to the reserves.
However the nuclear scientists explained to the good boers in government that a little thing cold radiation would harm them as well hence why they refrained from this and abandoned their policy and turned to people like Wouter ‘Dr. Death’ Basson, to devise other creative ways to use chemicals and bio-weapons on the black population specifically the leaders. So yes they were that stupid and it took scientists to tell the politicians that they would all die as a result of radiation. I understand the Nuclear concept and it doesn’t apply to Apartheid SA at all.

Historians agree that the 43 million attributed to Stalin also takes into account Stalin’s period as Sec. Gen. of the Bolsheviks. So yes the civil war between the Bolsheviks is very relevant.
That still does not dispel my point that Stalin’s deaths occurred because of overworking his population to meet an economic ideal of turning Russia into a superpower(which he did) and did not occur as a result of racial hatred, massacre and genocide as was the case with the Mafiosi known as the Broederbonders who ran this country. Therefore Apartheid SA = more evil > Stalin’s Russia.

You can defend yourself all you like but just like Bill clinton when he was caught with his pants down tried to manoeuvre and lie, the people already knew. You know full well what you were saying with your little shop comment about Maharaj. Don’t insult my intelligence and that of those who read your little prejudiced remark.

Its a joke really, I mean can anyone especially amongst the famous scribes in this columns who lived during the aparthied times, give us a newspaper clip of a tender advert for roads or repair of a hospital by the apartheid regime? or a tender process for the Rooivalk attack helicopter made by Denel? Who got the job, how did they get it - corruption! and it was legalised by the apartheid regime. Where did Denel get the engines and the technology - stealing blueprints from Israel by paying bribes and corruption to foreign nationals to steal technology from their governments. The white families of those apartheid regime agents bought farms, sent their children to lofty schools, built companies, bought shares in newspapers, donated to political parties, etc. In essance they washed their corruption gained money with good causes and lofty ideas but nothing has changed under the skin, prejudices or in racist attitudes. That is why this column has a lot of anti black victims, supremist critics of anything black, vengeance against the ANC, and utter disgust being South African. You read their morally bankrupt articles and you just see what kind of background that person comes from, bitter and defeated. They cant use the UK or Europe as a symbol of success anymore cause even that affiliation has let them down, Europe is in debt, no leadership (according to Obama just this week in Australia), they are now contemplating asking the Euro Central Bank to print more money like the Fed did in the US) banks are corrupt and failing, citizens have to bail them out.

You see thats exactly the problem the people in charge of the media have a vested interest in portraying this idea of black incompetence. Only in SA is the issue of tenders such a massive issue, in the rest of the world it is laughable. Business and shady processes with politicians go hand in hand, the Chairman of Daimler-Chrylser who are the owners of Merc-Benz laughed in a courtroom when asked about how business and politics interact through bribery and corruption he explained that there is no respectable business(Fortune 500 et al) that does not engage in bribery and corruption, otherwise it cannot even think of calling itself a succesful business we are talking Coke, mcdonalds, Fiat(ferrrari), BAE, Anglo-American etc. ANC and dodgy tenders are real small fry compared to whats happening all around the world but lo and behold the media needs any tiny thing to incessantly report about that portrays black incompetence so that their 'Government in waiting' can take over and this country returns to a new sophisticated form of economic neo-apartheid. The myth has been blown wide open and exposed that white people are not anymore competent than any other race when it comes to managing economies. The reason it seemed that they were getting things right is bcoz their economies were built and sustained primarily on the exploitation of black slave labour for +400 years which virtually still exists today and the raping of Africa's resources without payment or compensation (even a cellphone cant be built without cobalt or is it manganese from the DRC) now that we are on equal political footing and they cant exploit us so blatantly anymore(althought they still do) their economies are crumbling and their people are revolting bcoz that cats out of the bag. We at least have built what we have without looting, murdering and exploiting other people and their land. Btw SA didnt need to steal from Israel, Israel willingly sold it to them google 'Israel sold nuclear weapons to SA' and read the article in the Guardian UK. Israel is also an apartheid state-the last remaining and has been for almost 63 years now they were happy to do so bcoz they are just as sick. the white superiority myth is long long over let disgruntled people stop soking its fires and move on with the times!

@Tell-it
We at least have built what we have without looting, murdering and exploiting other people and their land.
-------------------

By stating " We ", I presume you talk about Africans ?

Again, are you for real ? You need to read a bit of history. You ever heard of Dingane ?

You better ask that question to the Pygmies in Central Africa that are being eaten, or to the San that was dumped in earlier mines hafts never to be let out again.

Better still ask the Hutus, and more recently the Sudanese or even be bold and bring the Somali question into this.

nxa

OTTOOTTO
Posted 1 hours ago
Its a joke really, I mean can anyone especially amongst the famous scribes in this columns who lived during the aparthied times, give us a newspaper clip of a tender advert for roads or repair of a hospital by the apartheid regime? or a tender process for the Rooivalk attack helicopter made by Denel?

---------------------

You are uninformed and naive. Let me help you.

Public works were advertised, as they should be today. I can vouch for that. Tenders were opened in front of all tenderers at a cermony called a "tender opening". All prices from all bidders were read out in public. So all partcipants knew what others were pricing. Transparent enough ?

Denel developed and built the Rooivalk helicopter themselves. They did not tender it !

In fact they sold a few on to other governments and associated technology to others.

If a contractor did not perform, his securities were called up. Poor workmanship was not tolerated. You NEVER ended up with a situation where you had to spend 40 BILLION RAND to REPAIR newly built housing meant for the poor.

This is just to set the record straight..

@ Hi-Jack Your talking about a few conflicts that have happened between small tribing groupings, I am talking about an entire civilsation being founded by the mass exploitation of every other racial grouping and the most exploited of all the Africans. Are you honestly even trying to compare 400 years of slavery and the millions upon millions of Africans who died during the slave trade or even the millions who died and suffered at the hands of the apartheid to a 3month genocide in Rwanda. I think you've lost your mind. A more appropriate comparison would be the genocide in Kosovo but even that doesnt compare to the Scramble for Africa or even Apartheid itself! I think your 'white guilt' is causing you to distort facts. Dont even bring the San and the pygmies into this u think there would be any of them left had the slave masters and colonialists found them useful in terms of labour and for exploitative purposes? Just look at Hottentot Venus and how she was humiliated and exploited in European cities for the amusement of white people- the one you guys found 'useful'!!!Gimme a break!

@Tell-It

I am not referring to a few conflicts, I am merely mentioning a few.

Again a few facts, just for the sake of keeping things fair.

* The Rwandan genocide happened in the space of a week, not 3 months.
* Slaves were caught and sold off to slave traders by Africans. Often their own families - as is still the case today (nowadays it's called human trafficking)
* South Africa never used it's own people as slaves. Slaves in colonial times were imported mainly from Java / Malaysia. They had tradesmen skills. No SAn was ever used as a slave. The West and Africans, entirely a different story
*Kosovo is based on religious differences. Muslim vs Christians. Nothing about Africans, except if you want to involve the Nigerians, Somali's and Sudanese. But that is not relevant tot our debate.

White Guilt. No. White shame, Yes. Why? Because some of us has to watch how the ANC led gov is decimating the biggest African economy, and the poorest getting poorer through utter contempt of good rules of governance and flagrant mismanagement.

The San and Pygmies are very relevant. It disprove your point.

Saartjie Baardman was unique and one of a kind. I do not subscribe to the fact that she was made a joke of. She was just unlucky perhaps, but it was still wrong. We have only hearsat. Was she kept in a zoo / cage ? Mistreated, spit upon, not fed? I do not know. God bless her soul.

Indeed you are correct the genocide happened in the space of a week which makes it even more laughable that you can compare it with 400 years of slavery or better yet with 42 years of tyranny, oppression, murder and torture of Apartheid. 42 Years versus one week? Be serious man!

Africans did participate in the slave trade but you cannot compare the minor role they played to that of people like Henry Morton Stanley a truly sick individual. There were hundreds of others just like him who made a lifelong career off of hunting, capturing and even torturing slaves for their own amusement. They were entire slave trading companies founded on this trade of which not a single African was a shareholder or owner of any sort!!!The African chiefs organised labour agreements involving members of their sub-clans a common practice and labour system which you do not understand. They did not realise until it was too late what was really happening was that human beings were being turned into cattle and that an entire industry spanning continents had been founded, typical of a certain people to manipulate an agreement with the use of brute fore, cunning and trickery and most importantly evil. These people left as human workers they arrived as domestic animals. An undeniable fact. Cities like Liverpool and Manchester would not have existed without the slave trade so how can you honestly in all your ignorance or is arrogance attribute the slave trade to blacks. SMH! Shocking utterly Shocking!!

Yes slaves came into SA from Malaysia but that was before the proud nations of the Zulu and the Xhosa had fallen. Once that happened they became the main labour force for the state an undeniable fact. SA itself was built by black hands working in slavelike conditions being paid slave wages nobody can deny that. No white men ever laid a brick or a train track for that matter and that continues today. Apartheid labour conditions were akin to slavery no one can refuse that ask any respectable Human rights Watchgroup they’ll tell you and even lay out the facts.

As for ‘Hottentot Venus’ the fact that you are even attempting to dispute that she was mistreated and that you even have the audacity and nerve to say she was UNLUCKY?? Just goes to show what an unrepentant unremorseful bigot u truly are. I have no more words for such arrogance.

North African pirates kidnapped over 1 million slaves between the 15th and 18th centuries from the coastal areas around Europe. Whole populations along the Italian coast moved inland to avoid capture. Just one example - google BARBARY PIRATES IN IRELAND THE SACK OF BALTIMORE

After 2 nd world war Germany and Japan had been fire bombed and nuked into oblivion.

Their major cities had been flattened and only smoldering ashes remained.

Having no "white man" to blame for their woes they worked like devils, and in a scant few years grew into the second and third biggest economies in the world.

Unlike the Japanese and Germans, the RSA black man inherited a fully functioning econmy with modern cities and industries.

What have they done with this marvelous head-start in growing the econmy and enriching the population?

Pretty much nothing except set the country on the slippery course downhill into communistic poverty....and vast riches for the very few. Whilst all the time blaming the white man for their inability to progress.

Afreecar for Afreakcans.