Phillip Dexter, former spokesman of the Congress of the People (COPE), MP and stern critic of the ANC, has rejoined the ruling party after a leave of absence. Bobby Jordan asked him ...

Why the change of heart?

As I said in my statement, I think my analysis of the state of affairs in our country is one in which I have realised that many of the problems I attributed to the ANC are actually societal problems, not problems of the political party itself. In my own view, COPE has failed and the political party that represents the vision and programme that I support is the ANC.

Were your earlier views (about the ANC) misguided?

 I think misguided is probably the right description. I think it was an analysis coloured by political events at the time - the Polokwane conference and things like that.

What brought about your change of heart?

 I think it has been a process, starting with the performance of COPE in local government elections and, prior to that, the leadership fights and so on.

What was wrong with COPE?

 I think there are so many problems, everything from its analysis through to its lack of a programme through to all the leadership squabbles. A raft of problems.

Commentators suggest people voted for COPE because they wanted a viable opposition to the ANC. Now you have joined them. Surely this is a betrayal?

 I don't think so. If you look at COPE's vision, it was about the Freedom Charter. Its programme and policies are very similar to those of the ANC. I think the closest party to COPE in many respects is the ANC.

Why not (join) the DA?

 I'm not a liberal. I think the DA represents a particular view that somebody like myself couldn't possibly support.

Were you misguided when you slated the ANC as having 'been reduced to being, at least partially, if not substantially, vehicles for patronage, primitive accumulation, corruption and excess'? Not at all. That is a view that the secretary-general of the ANC has expressed. I don't think I'm out of step with the views within the ANC leadership itself.

And yet you want to join them?

 As I said, I think its vision and programme are correct. We need to work hard at resolving those problems and weaknesses within the ANC.

You were also critical of what you described (in parliament) as ZEE - Zuma Economic Empowerment. I think what I said at the time was a matter of principle. I think organisations have to account for the accumulation of wealth by their leaders. Again, it is an issue that has been raised by the ANC itself.

What is your take on the info bill? I think we worked very hard, and people in the ANC itself worked very hard, to dramatically change that legislation. Apart from the public interest clause, it is now a lot better than when we started.

Would you vote for it in its current form?

 If I was in the ANC, I would have to because that would have been the [order from the] whip.

Your critics believe the move is all about rescuing your own political skin by leaping from a sinking ship. Are you? Not at all. I am going to be an ordinary member of the ANC. I play no leadership role. I don't have any position in the ANC. It is a matter of principle. It is what I believe is correct. There is no benefit or gain for me.

Your critics also suggest maybe you were offered money by the ANC to rejoin that party?

 Absolutely no truth in that. I approached the ANC. The ANC has offered me nothing. There has been no material inducement. No offer of a position. I am unemployed and looking for a job.

On Facebook, you ask for money to fight a court case. I made an appeal to friends and family, many of whom have responded positively and supported me. That is a personal matter and has nothing to do with my political views. That is a very difficult and tragic family issue, and for people to try to suggest that in some way is affecting my political views is frankly callous and unkind.

Should COPE disband?

 I've said I think they should shut up shop. Yes.