These soundbites are counterproductive, why don't you release the report. We've all known that nationalisation is not viable for South Africa since 1994 but no one has done a proper economic study and credible analysis. Government already owns all the mineral rights in South Africa and that alone is a sound argument against nationalisation. The challenge is to make productive use of these rights through partnerships, taxes, royalties, transformation and development of the sector. The mining sector including the opposition parties led by the Democratic Alliance has been complacently ambivalent and bankrupt on the issue choosing scarecrow tactics using the media, 'doomsayers' as Manuel puts it. Mrs Minister please public the report and stop these soundbites so that South African's could apply their minds to the study, lest we think it is politically correct to suit the ANC.

This 'nationalisation' thing must be placed in perspective, so as to remove all this populism by the ruling party, for it or against it.

The nation state owns everybody's life and livelihood within a state. The state and the banks control every wealth without producing any. They have entrenched laws that render everyones' lives expandable, as soon as they cannot pay them tax, or interest. Even though the banks must depend on the state's reserve bank for profiteering, the state depends on the bank for accumulation of the excess value, which is formed out of the labour content of a commodity.

Even this loose talk about "job creation" is flawed, because capitalism kills productivity in order to make its profit. All the value of any produce is commensurable in money, which determines its price, without being of use to it. You can produce the best value for society's use, but if its of no profit to the capitalist, it kills it off. But even the capitalist who competes with the state capitalism, is also doomed, unless he is prepared to pay taxes for the state's gain. The welfare state's dilemma is that it depends on poverty to get the vote, which it keeps by dishing out free money to the destitute, for them to hand over back to the capitalist. Yet it must permit the capitalist to exploit the labour, on whom he depends for commodities, because money on its own is useless without mediating between commodities, to valorize itself.

So poverty brings about power, but in the long run, it destroys power. On the other hand capital depends on the labour power, but it must exploit it in order to make its profit, and pay the taxes. Money on its own is useless. And power without poverty cannot last. Yet both cannot survive without the labour power and the taxes it produces.

Susan said NO!!!!!!
But then Gwede said................... ???????

Shabangu and Maanuel must be carefull with what they are trying to sell for it might not sell. Shabangu and Manuel thinks being put to lead our course gives them the right to decide and influence debate and this will certainly be this will be their downfall.

I do not think the NGC will adopt what Shabangu and Manuel are selling in July, a proper model will be adopted in Mangaung. Shabangu is carving her way in the private sector at our expense and she will be shut down in Mangaung and will never be in governments again

The government cannot rely on taxation in the mines as it is easy for these for the books to be manipulated. Right now we have a problem with millionairs who manipulate their income to avoid tax. How is the government going to be able to collect that revenue from the mines if it is already failing.

It is this impartiality that we will never recognise the outcomes of the desciplinary of Julius Malema. Two Ministers who sat in that committee who disagreed with the ANCYL position were handed power to dismiss our leaders. We are going to Mangaung with our gloves off and we will borrow back the Ministarial peks, blue light cars and PA's we gave them and give it to those who will listnen to the voice of the people! Nationalisation was debated in 1955 by the people and it was concluded that all the mineral wealth of the land shall be handed over to be control by the state on behalf of the people. Those who are power drunk will be tackled head on and will find themselves in the cold with their sponsors! We will not bow down on this issue until a total overhaul of our economy and mining in particular is handed back to the masses! We crushed the apartheid and we will defeat this new form of colonisation and the enemy within too! Amandla!!

Shabangu is applying for a new post of being a deputy minister of Sport if not perhaps deputy minister of Women ,Childrens and People with Disability Rights. Sure these positions can be good for Manuel and Shabangu

Nationalisation would have been viable if we had a government made up of people competent in managing things. sadly this is not the case. it's like a parent giving delinquent child who is also a drug addict keys to the family safe.

I don't know what the dearest Minister is smoking. She wants to make the majority of South Africans believe what she is saying as if it were in the best interest of the masses. This is the problem of having dubious characters as Ministers. On the very same day the secretary general is saying nationalisation is the way forward, she's saying NO.

Zuma and his cohorts must not think we are blind to their sinister moves where they tell us that the country cannot afford to run the mines because they themselves are raking in billions from the mines. We are not blind to their course, i mean his empire in mining is already running as far as the DRC with the kabila's.

Zuma and his cohorts must never think that they are blind sighting us, we did not join the struggle with blind eyes. The minerals of this country have to benefit all not only the Nkandla clan and his parrots

Ntebs

Mo Blaq

King Biko

Et al. For a government that works for the masses vote DA.

@MoBlaq

This group is making fools of us, if you can check the shareholding of those against nationalisation in mining you will be supprised.Zuma and his cohorts tell us that those who want nationalisation are aiming at bailout but the fact is they( Zuma and his Club) are protecting their turf. They actually say this because they want to maintain the status quo or if the be change it must be minimal to their appetitte of enriching themselves by mining at our behest.

Msholozi and his club must know that we are watching this space with keen interest and they will not win. It is not those who want bailout who are doing the masses the diservice but those who have Zumaficated the resourses of this coutry .

Our forefathers were wiser than our young in these issues and will always be. They had four pillars of education which has been proven as an international benchmark in the education for all programme; learning to know, learning to do, learning to be and learning to live together. All this was done to achieve one purpose - to solve daily problems. They used these methods whilst the young tendered flock, tilling the land, building the kraals, mining the rocks for iron ore, celebrating their culture and paying homeage to the King and the Creator. Our youth are illiterate, know bugger-all, cannot do anything for themselves, have no identity and have gross disrespect for their fellowman let alone their King and Creator. A generation lost in nationalisation.

Is the ANC reviewing its current economic policy i.e 'mixed economy''? If so, why dont they tell everybody that the current market economic polic is not working, therefore needs to be reviewed?

What is ahappening here? Why confuse everybody? As for senior party officials contradicting one another in public, I think this is embarrassing. Why not debate the matter in private and then articulate a common position in public?

The ANC needs to give us one information on the so called nationalization of mines document so that we as members are not confused by their different messages that era in public as we speak. For example this mornig in SAFM SG Cde Mantashe said the natioanlisation debate is not closed in that document that was tabled before the ANC NEC meeting and that document will be discussed by ANC branches and other structures. Yesterday and today two Ministers Manuel, Shabangu and (SATAWU pesion) Godongwana are telling us in the mining indaba that nationalisation is not viable and that document totaly kick out the issue of nationalisation. All four are members of the ANC NEC and they were present in that NEC meeting where the ducment was tabled but they told us different stories. Your will remember that both these ministers are members of the disciplinary committee of the ANC that found Malema and ANCYL committee guilty of sowing division in the ANC and their pronouncement on nationalisation. I am not a fan of Malema and i am happy that the ANC at last took a decision to discipline him. In my view there was nothing called research team on nationalisation that was set by ANC instead that document was drafted by Manuel, Shabangu and Godongwana helped by ANC administrators. It is the blue lies that the research was done and the truth will come one day. These comrades are behaving as if the ANC is a business entity.

ANC4Life

The South African brain is dead, killed in 1994. How much of taxpayers' money did it cost for this woman just to make this announcement?

We stunted our brain in debates about skin colour, and we still do. Now we spend millions worth of our time debating something we know nothing about. We even can't understand that this country was built by the minerals we want to lay our hands on.

There is nothing to gold or other minerals, except to supply commodities with material for the expression of their values, or to represent these values as magnitudes of the same denomination, qualitatively equal and quantitatively comparable. As a universal measure of value, minerals become the specific equivalent of commodity - money.

We can all have mines and all the minerals in the world, but without commodities - which are the basic necessities for material life - but we can die of famine. Even after digging all our land into an unlivable plane, we still have to sell it to the capitalist, at his own price as a use value. His price - and this is international level - depends on how much they can be used as common measures of commodities.

The sad thing money - which is use used as an expression of the mineral use value - has imposed itself as a means of exchange for commodities. In itself, it is useless, but moves from one hand to another numerous times in one day, without changing its form. It is the commodities that human beings want for living, but these have been trapped by money, useless to livelihood as it is.

The value of minerals is determined internationally, and this is where the capitalist calls the shots, whether Chinese or Russian, Cuban, or Western. These control everyone's livelihood.

That we have to be still explaining these things to rulers of a state in 2012, is attributable to chrematistics indoctrination - which forms most modern economics, with its emphasis on short-term profit.

Aristotle made a distinction between oikonomia Greek word from (oikos - house) and (nomos - manage), and chrematistics. The simple difference is that the former is the management of the household to increase its use value to all members thereof over a long run, and the latter refers to the manipulation of property and wealth so as to maximize short-term monetary exchange value to the owner.

The latter is what constitutes our today's "economist", and the quest for instant riches by individuals.

Susan Shabangu: "Gwede...READ MY LIPS!"

Maybe i'm not reading this correctly. Why is Gwede "Khaphela" saying the investors should not bully or blackmail the ANC? Susan is misreading the document the ANC has presented at the mining indaba. As public we were made to understand that nationalisation should be associated with 100% by the media and it's not true after hearing "Khaphela" y/day. With this super-tax or 50/50 ownership of the mines, that simple means NATIONALISATION OF MINES policy is about to kick in. Correct me if i'm wrong.