We won't be bullied: Gwede
Image by: HALDEN KROG
ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe says the ruling party will not be bullied into stopping discussion on the nationalisation of mines because it will scare off investors.
Mantashe said this as Minister in the Presidency Trevor Manuel told a high-profile mining indaba in Cape Town yesterday that the nationalisation of South Africa's mines was not an option.
Mantashe, clearly irritated by continued speculation about the outcome of a report on mines nationalisation commissioned by the ANC, said the party would not be blackmailed by threats that investments would be withdrawn should nationalisation become government policy.
''One of the things I don't like . is the threat of not investing, of not coming, or of [investors saying if you nationalise mines] we will go away,'' Mantashe told journalists at Luthuli House in Johannesburg.
''The beauty of minerals is that they are not mobile. The beauty of it is that you will come and find them here. I don't think we should use the blackmail approach in discussing an important policy matter in the ANC. And I think even . the threat of [saying the nationalisation of mines] is unaffordable [should be discouraged].''
Weekend media reports said an independent panel that had carried out the study for the ANC on the feasibility of nationalising the mines had recommended that nationalisation be rejected because it was not affordable.
The study reportedly found that the government would need to raise about R1-trillion to buy out listed mining companies.
The report, which has still to be debated by the ANC, apparently recommends a less expensive approach of increasing taxes on mining giants as a way of deriving more benefit from the country's mineral wealth.
The report was discussed at the ruling party's national executive committee meeting at the weekend, and Mantashe said party members and stakeholders would soon be invited to comment on it.
Only then would the ANC adopt it as a discussion document at its national policy conference in Midrand in June.
"What is important is what [are] the best practices internationally in terms of managing mineral resources,'' Mantashe said. "Why are investors and companies prepared to go 50-50 [ownership] in diamond mines in Botswana, [but] say that we must not even discuss that?
"Why do companies say that they can work with a state company in Chile and in Brazil [but] if it is in South Africa [discussing it] is a no-no?" Mantashe said.
However, Manuel's message at the 18th Investing in African Mining Indaba in Cape Town yesterday was that the mining industry deserved policy certainty from the government.
"The Minister [of Mineral Resources, Susan Shabangu] was pretty forthright in saying that there will be nationalisation over her dead body.
"Now you couldn't ask for a clearer statement than that," Manuel told the indaba, which was attended by financiers, investors, mining professionals and government officials.
"The mining sector is so fundamentally important as a platform to construct the [upliftment] transition that we can't be able to take this idea of nationalisation forward," Manuel said.
"If some doomsayer comes along and generates another lie [about nationalisation], don't believe them," he said.
In May last year, Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan identified the mining industry as one of the sectors with potential to create jobs.
And in June, mining giant AngloGold Ashanti said the mining industry generated R424-billion in revenue in 2010, and spent R49-billion in new projects and new jobs.
In 2010, the mining sector contributed about 1million jobs to the economy, half of them directly, and more than 50% of merchandise exports.
Yesterday, the Industrial Development Corporation released a research report that revealed reasons South Africa is failing to capitalise on its mineral wealth.
Factors identified include the introduction of a new minerals regime, infrastructure constraints, safety issues, falling productivity attributed to a poor mining safety record, escalating costs, skills shortages and a volatile exchange rate, among others.
The report recommended that, on top of investing in energy and transport infrastructure, South Africa should address shortages of professionals, especially geologists and mining engineers, and safety measures.
The debate around state ownership intensified when suspended ANC Youth League president Julius Malema made repeated calls for nationalisation of mines and other key sectors of the economy as part of the league's call for economic freedom.
Despite reports that Malema's calls were a threat to foreign investment, Mantashe yesterday said nationalisation was not about the youth leader or the league.
Since Malema called for nationalisation, several cabinet ministers, including Manuel, Shabangu and Public Enterprises Minister Malusi Gigaba, have vocally opposed the idea, suggesting that the league's calls were irresponsible.
Manuel said last year: "This country desperately needs investment, more specifically investment in our rich mineral endowment.
"And, if for no other reason than we need investment, we must declare repeatedly that the nationalisation of the mines is a seriously bad idea.
"Even reading the medium-term budget with half a brain will confirm that there are no fiscal resources available through taxes or borrowing to pay for mines or invest in them, even if the government were to get these mines gratis." - Additional reporting by I-Net Bridge and Sapa



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Posted 109 days agol984
So the bullies won't be bullied. Nice one.
MoBlaq
l984
Posted 109 days ago"Communists are dangerous for your health, for your sanity, for your economy, freedom, democracy and for your country."
the_original_MommaCyndi
Posted 109 days agoUntil such time as Eishkom, Transnet and our general infrastructure is able to handle large scale industrialisation which will allow us to convert our mineral wealth into tangible products, we will never benefit from mineral resources. The profits are not in grubbing in the soil like worms, the profits are in the end product.
Horus
Jonos
Posted 109 days agoBra-Beige
Posted 109 days agoSuiGeneris
Posted 109 days agoShame, with your limited thinking ability how could we blame you !
Long ago you heard some one shouting about this and you believed it !
Horus
Posted 109 days agoNationalisation is a feasible, viable and possibly the best way to empower the black population. Land reform through land transference without compensation is another viable method of ensuring the lower income groups are not at the mercy of large commercial farmers and merchant banks who gamble on the prices of crucial commodities such as maize and wheat.
The poor continue to pay hefty prices for basic foods, even in times of abundant rain and harvest because the banks have manipulated prices through forward contracts. They talk about a regulated efficient market but the weak gets trampled on in the pursuit for more profits. Why can’t companies be content with achieving a fair profit on their investment? They want to squeeze more and more profits out of the system with little capital investment in human resources and locally produced capital goods.
I have no respect for companies who threaten us with a mass exodus when we start thinking about what is best for us; is South Africa not Sovereignty?
bis-k'hallawaya
SuiGeneris
Dream on !!!!!
l984
I have to agree with you on that one.
It takes a lot of courage to take Africa's biggest and greatest economic powerhouse and democracy - and to turn it into another Cuba, North Korea, Soviet Union or yes - even China.
MsLee
The issue of futures impacting on the cost of commodities is another issue. That practice is coming under scrutiny all over the world - and rightly. But again, that doesn't mean it's a viable proposition to nationalise the banks. State banks can have a meanignful place in the mix - and do in many countries. But the state's record of managing the Land Bank is surely a cautionary tale for us all to consider ...
Finally, in a globalised world, investors will invest where they will be able to achieve a viable return in a secure operating environment. If we don't want to take that fact into account, OK, let's excercise our sovereign rights, nationalise the mines and the banks - and see where that gets us. I suspect the chance of failure in that case would be high - given government's track record so far - and that human suffering would increase considerably (note what happened at Aurora).
My feeling is that if we want widespread economic collapse and perhaps even a working class revolution as a direct result of that - instead of the benefits of a well-managed development state - let's shoot from the hip and nationalise.
Horus
Posted 109 days agoHow can we continue to support a system that marginalises a horde of intelligent bright graduates into oblivion and despair? I cannot, being sober and consciously aware, believe we still worship such as system.
We need to re-think a better way and cease our heavy dependence on countries with measly resources compared to us. We need to start thinking about getting everyone rich and wealth, not just getting by until month end but a South Africa that tours the world and blessed the world with new technologies, inventions and products. The true natural resource that anyone can lay a claim on is the mind and its unknown powers.
buddi
Do you really think that when the mines are nationalised the money will go to the poor? Dream on. Currently the money is not used to uplift the poor, but by looting and mismanagement billions are lost.
1. What gives you the idea that the mines will be run efficiently by the present government?
2. What gives you the idea that the money will be used for upliftment of the poor?
And the transfer of land to the poor without compensation. Never mind the compensation, what are the poor going to do with the land?
nsukuangel
I think for a poor person like me, I belive it is better if the money generated from the mines in SA is spent poorly within the shores of this country, than it being spent in London and Sysdney by people i do not even know, if that is where this debate will lead to.... So my point beeing that I for once support what Gwede said yesterday, cos the big question is "WHAT HAS THE MINING INDUSTRY DONE TO OUR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 100 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY WE ARE PROUD OF?" so for me I say its either 50/50 or nothing, this bullying tectics cannot be tolarated anymore.
By the way I am not a suuporter of any political organization I write this in my capacity as a concerned citizen of the Repuplic of South Africa.
Mike123
If that is true, then I guess that today we should be celebrating the absurdity that was called apartheid?
Horus
Slavery was an economic catalyst and therefore a secret weapon for many mushrooming nations of the 1600-1700s. Unfortunately Adam Smith did not mention it as a wonder but we all know that it was celebrated.
Colonisation must have sounded heavenly to Victorian Brits, it spawned new Empires etc. Today corruption among those in the government circles is a divine heaven made idea of self upliftment but it will prove disastrous in the future; unless of course we persuade a critical number to vote for a more intelligent party.
Vision2030
@buddi,
1. What gives you the idea that the mines will be run efficiently by the present government?
i think you are being myopic. state control is by and large inefficient irrespective of the government in power. Your narrow-mindedness party-political leanings cloud your judgement.
MisterWendal
Posted 109 days agoHow about pumping money into value-added enterprises like the training of jewellers, etc.
Surely that makes more sense than disturbing mineral extraction experts (and risking further corruption-laden BEE deals)? Mining companies can be dealt with by taxation and by enforcing greater social responsibility initiatives. The government should concentrate on job creation by focussing on the refinement of our precious metals - currently our precious minerals are creating jobs for people abroad in India, etc.
Horus
Vision2030
BokFan
Yup instead of NYDA supporting lavish lifestyles for the fat and flatulent they could spend time supporting a local bling industry. At the producer AND consumer ends.
Horus Geez dude make up your mind ek se. How can you write those reams of economic and political guffoonery advocating apocalypse and then calmly agree with Wendal here. Nooit man
what you are doing is a sure sign of mental instability.
Horus
BokFan
Boet there is a LOT you do not know. As evidenced by your massively contradictory stance on this issue.
Horus
BokFan
Rather a small car going forward steadily than a big car upside down in the ditch.
States
Posted 109 days agoPOST94
Posted 109 days agol984
By the way - which indoctrination project are YOU from?
BokFan
Post94
Rather a sane chihuahua than a rabid kasi brak.
l984
So if you ask me - rather keep them away from any positions of influence, power or decision-making as they only things they are good for are to expropriate, oppress and destroy.
l984
Morning Bokfan mon cheri, good timing :)
bis-k'hallawaya
Posted 109 days agoThe ANC does not have the will, and they are not prepared to relinquish the swill.............
m1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 109 days agoHe manipulated NUM and COSATU to gain control of the SACP, and manipulated the SACP to gain foothold of the ANC. He has manipulated the ANC to control the state. Ironically, he was so disparaging about the very ANC ministers, when he was not inside, until Mbeki called his bluff, and gave him a lucrative post. He cannot go back there because it is difficult, and the citizen hold individual ministers accountable. The ANC position allows him to control the state and the organisation without any accountability.
He must have studied Pik Botha's maneuverings very well.
nsukuangel
Posted 109 days agoI think for a poor person like me, I belive it is better if the money generated from the mines in SA is spent poorly within the shores of this country, than it being spent in London and Sysdney by people i do not even know, if that is where this debate will lead to.... So my point beeing that I for once support what Gwede said yesterday, cos the big question is "WHAT HAS THE MINING INDUSTRY DONE TO OUR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 100 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY WE ARE PROUD OF?" so for me I say its either 50/50 or nothing, this bullying tectics cannot be tolarated anymore.
By the way I am not a suuporter of any political organization I write this in my capacity as a concerned citizen of the Repuplic of South Africa.
Vision2030
This is a very good question which warrants a response. hence my suggestion that perhaps we need to begin to quantify rather than adhering to beliefs religiously.
I am no believer in nationalisation since I have seen how incapable the state is and can be in running institutions and delivering basic services. This does not however, mean that we should naively put our trust on the 'benevolance' of the so-called investors.
m1si2zi3nzo4
I thought this stuff was taught in primary school. Or has our education been 'transformed' beyond recognition?
Horus
Posted 109 days agoA slow stroll to economic freedom for all (all races) will not yield any fruitage; only a radical intentioned-plan will get us a first class country status. A slow walk to freedom might have worked for Madiba and the problems of his generation but our generation’s problems are quite complex and abstract that we don’t have an identifiable enemy; the enemy walks and eats amongst us.
We really appreciate Mandela and his friends but to gain a permanent hold on our freedom means that we have to operate away from the sluggish ANC and render it impotent within a short period of time. We need a cleverer organisation that is responsive to people’s needs and is intelligent enough to know when to run and when to walk and does not celebrate a defeat of one of its own comrades.
BokFan
Take a look at Europe. Thanks to governments buying favour with their unproductive electorates ten years into the European dream they are bankrupt. And they are not all lazy thieves and liars like Malema and his gang.
How long do you think it would be before you are begging for a bag of UN mielies.
Never mind the quick walk to freedom
Try the hard work to freedom.
m1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 109 days agoThey have taken away every citizens capacity, even that of building one's own shelter, which even ants can do on their own. Ironically, both the state and the banks cannot produce anything, but are the net consumers of the tax payers' sweat. They have taken over every human capacity to produce for his subsistence, and charge interest and tax from those remaining few, who dare want to produce for profit.
Vision2030
Posted 109 days agoI understand where Gwede is coming from, but surely the ANC should move away from the culture 'f 'endless debates' and start taking concrete policy decisions that will take this country forward. The is no value in endless debates especially if those debates are ill-informed and do not produce any positive, tangible outcomes. Democracy is not just about debates, but decision-making as well.
Having said that I agree with the sentiment that perhaps it is about time that we begin to quantify the impact of investors (mainly foreign) on job-creation in the country. So far, it would seem that people just ASSUME that private invetors are good for the country. How about quantifying their real impact over the years and show those who believe otherwise, that as a country we cannot do without investors?
Horus
MsLee
Posted 109 days agoAlso, as always, what Mantashe fails to mention is that the state *already* owns all mineral rights in the country - and earns a substanital income from the sale of mineral rights and from mining taxes. How this revenue is being used, of course, is another story.
And then there's the fact that, on the very same day, two top ANC officials (Manuel and Shabangu) both say the mines won't be nationlaised, while Mantashe says otherwise. This is just another reason why investors think twice about pouring billions of dollars into mining investment in SA - what Manuel aptly calls 'policy uncertainty'. And, in the end, this lack of policy direction is impacting on development in such a way that, as always, it's ordinary people who suffer, not the party elite.
Horus
The older folk say certainly Apartheid was better, we at least had jobs. What's more important between freedom and an ability to feed your family? If I have freedom to roam freely in the Suburbs but my kids go hungry, then what is the use of freedom? Would it be better to be confined to my stable in the homelands?
The ANC has given its constituency a reason to ask all this unprofitable questions.
MsLee
We really, seriously *never* want to go back to apartheid - I lived through it and I agree with the UN that it was a crime against humanity. But before we do something extremely costly that we'll probably live to regret deeply as a nation, let's make sure that revenues from the sale of mineral rights and from mining taxes are being used properly (which, needless to say, they clearly aren't at the moment).
bis-k'hallawaya
Posted 109 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
Talk of hypocricy!
Horus
Posted 109 days agoBokFan
Horus 7/2/2012
"Nationalisation is a feasible, viable and possibly the best way to empower the black population. Land reform through land transference without compensation is another viable method of ensuring the lower income groups are not at the mercy of large commercial farmers and merchant banks who gamble on the prices of crucial commodities such as maize and wheat."
Horus 7/2/2012
I rest my case your honour. Bring the straitjacket please.
MoBlaq
Posted 109 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 109 days agoHe cannot be that dumb, or is he?
bis-k'hallawaya
Posted 109 days ago"Analysis: What would happen to SA if mines were nationalised?
Nothing good, the experts say. That’s the short answer. The long one is a little more nuanced than that, but it still spells doom for the country should the ANC Youth League have its way with the economy. By SIPHO HLONGWANE." Daily Maverick 23-6-2011........
"The Chinese model is morbidly obese
South Africa wants to adopt 'the Chinese economic model', President Jacob Zuma is expected to announce this week. This would be a very grave mistake. The Chinese miracle is not what it seems. Just like with the American and European debt crises, this will become painfully clear soon enough. But sadly not by Thursday" IVO VEGTER Daily Maverick today........
Tswanalised
Posted 108 days agoWe need more shrewd leaders to take our country forward. I mean how can a country like SA, with a liberal consititution follow the Chinese model? China is unpretentiously UNDEMOCRATIC, so I wonder why the ANC is so fascinated with it?
Tswanalised
BokFan
bis-k'hallawaya
Posted 108 days agoSapa | 07 February, 2012 13:44
The ANC must rediscover its "revolutionary morality", so its leaders can be selfless, honest, and live with integrity, Cosatu said on Tuesday.""""""
LOOK WHO'S TALKING TOO.............
COSATU's deafening silence on Godongwana's "moment of weakness"......and on Aurora's Kubuluse Zuma+Zondwa Mandela failure to pay the miners for over 2 years while living "la vida loca"..........and on SADTU 'slower than slow' performance in benefit of the 'apartheid liberated' students.................
Razzo
Posted 108 days agoThe Economic Liberation of the masses will lead to many advantages like a decrease in crime (which everyone wants to see completely wiped out), a decrease in disease, in malnutrtion of babies and will see an increase in the child mortality rate. This will also see the wage and economic gap decreased and will lead our people to affording a life that is both dignified and proper. Saudi Arabia is the richest oil producing country and look at how their people are well taken care of. The problem in Africa is that our minerals are controlled by foreigners who do not give a damn about our people but only care for profits. I honestly think we should stop thinking about being either black or white first or rather ANC or DA but think that WE ARE SOUTH AFRICAN FIRST AND THEN THE REST SECOND because these mineral resources are the keys to our liberation......all of us both black and white. We cannot have western governements and Capitalists wagging their finger at us about our diamonds, gold and platinum. If they dont like how we do business, then we will look for other markets.
Diode
Last I looked they were happily selling their unrefined oil to dreadful capitalists all over the world.
The Saudi 'citizens' are well looked after as long as they follow his master's voice. Deviations are harshly punished.
A visit might change your mind on this idea.
BokFan
If we were a big win destination this place would be lit up like Vegas.
Horrible thought I know. But lets face thats what you bling addicts dream about isnt it.
l984
Posted 108 days ago"The Saudi 'citizens' are well looked after as long as they follow his master's voice. Deviations are harshly punished. "
I fail to understand how and why those who have suffered under apartheid and have had to struggle and fight for their freedoms are the same ones so fascinated with other undemocratic and oppressive regimes and even dream of replicating them?!
Truly mind-boggling.
Nwanawamukalaha
Posted 108 days ago~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where does this leave Susan Shabangu and Trevor Manuel after saying NOM is not viable?
Spitfire
Posted 108 days agoInvestors: Mmm...then we will invest elsewhere and not in South Africa.
Mantashe: Stop bullying us!!
It is quite evident that Mantashe has no idea how the world works! He is a complete fool.