Please enter your login details

You can also sign in with your Sowetan LIVE &
Business LIVE account details.
   Sign Up   Forgot password?

Sign in with:

 
Sat May 26 14:16:24 SAST 2012

We won't be bullied: Gwede

AMUKELANI CHAUKE | 07 February, 2012 00:40
ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe during a media briefing at Luthuli House.
Image by: HALDEN KROG

ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe says the ruling party will not be bullied into stopping discussion on the nationalisation of mines because it will scare off investors.

Mantashe said this as Minister in the Presidency Trevor Manuel told a high-profile mining indaba in Cape Town yesterday that the nationalisation of South Africa's mines was not an option.

Mantashe, clearly irritated by continued speculation about the outcome of a report on mines nationalisation commissioned by the ANC, said the party would not be blackmailed by threats that investments would be withdrawn should nationalisation become government policy.

''One of the things I don't like . is the threat of not investing, of not coming, or of [investors saying if you nationalise mines] we will go away,'' Mantashe told journalists at Luthuli House in Johannesburg.

''The beauty of minerals is that they are not mobile. The beauty of it is that you will come and find them here. I don't think we should use the blackmail approach in discussing an important policy matter in the ANC. And I think even . the threat of [saying the nationalisation of mines] is unaffordable [should be discouraged].''

Weekend media reports said an independent panel that had carried out the study for the ANC on the feasibility of nationalising the mines had recommended that nationalisation be rejected because it was not affordable.

The study reportedly found that the government would need to raise about R1-trillion to buy out listed mining companies.

The report, which has still to be debated by the ANC, apparently recommends a less expensive approach of increasing taxes on mining giants as a way of deriving more benefit from the country's mineral wealth.

The report was discussed at the ruling party's national executive committee meeting at the weekend, and Mantashe said party members and stakeholders would soon be invited to comment on it.

Only then would the ANC adopt it as a discussion document at its national policy conference in Midrand in June.

"What is important is what [are] the best practices internationally in terms of managing mineral resources,'' Mantashe said. "Why are investors and companies prepared to go 50-50 [ownership] in diamond mines in Botswana, [but] say that we must not even discuss that?

"Why do companies say that they can work with a state company in Chile and in Brazil [but] if it is in South Africa [discussing it] is a no-no?" Mantashe said.

However, Manuel's message at the 18th Investing in African Mining Indaba in Cape Town yesterday was that the mining industry deserved policy certainty from the government.

"The Minister [of Mineral Resources, Susan Shabangu] was pretty forthright in saying that there will be nationalisation over her dead body.

"Now you couldn't ask for a clearer statement than that," Manuel told the indaba, which was attended by financiers, investors, mining professionals and government officials.

"The mining sector is so fundamentally important as a platform to construct the [upliftment] transition that we can't be able to take this idea of nationalisation forward," Manuel said.

"If some doomsayer comes along and generates another lie [about nationalisation], don't believe them," he said.

In May last year, Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan identified the mining industry as one of the sectors with potential to create jobs.

And in June, mining giant AngloGold Ashanti said the mining industry generated R424-billion in revenue in 2010, and spent R49-billion in new projects and new jobs.

In 2010, the mining sector contributed about 1million jobs to the economy, half of them directly, and more than 50% of merchandise exports.

Yesterday, the Industrial Development Corporation released a research report that revealed reasons South Africa is failing to capitalise on its mineral wealth.

Factors identified include the introduction of a new minerals regime, infrastructure constraints, safety issues, falling productivity attributed to a poor mining safety record, escalating costs, skills shortages and a volatile exchange rate, among others.

The report recommended that, on top of investing in energy and transport infrastructure, South Africa should address shortages of professionals, especially geologists and mining engineers, and safety measures.

The debate around state ownership intensified when suspended ANC Youth League president Julius Malema made repeated calls for nationalisation of mines and other key sectors of the economy as part of the league's call for economic freedom.

Despite reports that Malema's calls were a threat to foreign investment, Mantashe yesterday said nationalisation was not about the youth leader or the league.

Since Malema called for nationalisation, several cabinet ministers, including Manuel, Shabangu and Public Enterprises Minister Malusi Gigaba, have vocally opposed the idea, suggesting that the league's calls were irresponsible.

Manuel said last year: "This country desperately needs investment, more specifically investment in our rich mineral endowment.

"And, if for no other reason than we need investment, we must declare repeatedly that the nationalisation of the mines is a seriously bad idea.

"Even reading the medium-term budget with half a brain will confirm that there are no fiscal resources available through taxes or borrowing to pay for mines or invest in them, even if the government were to get these mines gratis." - Additional reporting by I-Net Bridge and Sapa

SHARE YOUR OPINION

If you have an opinion you would like to share on this article, please send us an e-mail to the Times LIVE iLIVE team. In the mean time, click here to view the Times LIVE iLIVE section.

BornintheRSA

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
The ANC is an aimless (dis)organisation. The top members don't agree amongst themselves. There is no formal policy about nationalisation. Not having a policy is worse than having a bad policy where the bad policy is at least consistently applied. Mantashe just rambles on using emotive words. I suppose election time is near and he needs to be all things to all people. How is foreign ownership of our mines worse than ownership by ICT and Aurora? It's not worse, it's better for jobs.
Avatar

l984

Posted 109 days ago

So the bullies won't be bullied. Nice one.
Avatar

MoBlaq

Posted 109 days ago
No amount of bullying or insults will desuade the ANC from Nationalisation. Those who thought for a second that Julius was mad, needs to be educated in the strategy and operations of the ANC. Now Julius is out of the way, the bigwigs are saying it themselves. Way to go secretary general.

l984

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar

"Communists are dangerous for your health, for your sanity, for your economy, freedom, democracy and for your country."

the_original_MommaCyndi

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
During apartheid, you could not sell any minerals except through parastatals. The ANC decided that we must have a 'free economy'. Now some of them think we should not have a 'free economy'. Therein lies the problem. Nobody thinks before making sweeping changes and the constant back tracking leaves everyone unsettled.

Until such time as Eishkom, Transnet and our general infrastructure is able to handle large scale industrialisation which will allow us to convert our mineral wealth into tangible products, we will never benefit from mineral resources. The profits are not in grubbing in the soil like worms, the profits are in the end product.
Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Accelerated industrialisation can be achieved if the government can make productivity a national agenda and establish key organisation to ensure that those with entrepreneurial capabilities are supported, funded and not pushed aside through a myriad of legislation such the BEE Act and Procurement Policies. One way of achieving a matured economy that can transform a significant proportion of its mineral resources is to invest in people and technology and the IDC is the supposedly organisation for just this purpose but trust me our country is better off without the IDC. The existence of the IDC makes us have a false hope that we are going somewhere, when in reality they have their feet fully on the brakes of economic growth.

Jonos

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Good old Gwede, he has his own policy for everything. It's comforting to know that he knows everything about everything, and is prepared to say it like he thinks it is.

Bra-Beige

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Minerals might not be mobile Mr. Mantashe, but capital most certainly is.

SuiGeneris

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
''''''''''Mantashe said the party would not be blackmailed by threats that investments would be withdrawn should nationalisation become government policy.''''''''

Shame, with your limited thinking ability how could we blame you !

Long ago you heard some one shouting about this and you believed it !

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Finally someone in the ANC sticks his head out and behaves like a man. Thanks Gwede for standing out of the cowardly flock of sheep in the ANC, they have the emperor to please and they have forgotten who voted for them. When people vote for the ANC; they are not voting for a Trevor Manuel, a Cyril Ramaphosa or a glamourous ANC history ; they vote for the alleviation of poverty, better education, better roads, better access to capital and land. Unfortunately our heroes have become the administrators of various foreign emperors.

Nationalisation is a feasible, viable and possibly the best way to empower the black population. Land reform through land transference without compensation is another viable method of ensuring the lower income groups are not at the mercy of large commercial farmers and merchant banks who gamble on the prices of crucial commodities such as maize and wheat.

The poor continue to pay hefty prices for basic foods, even in times of abundant rain and harvest because the banks have manipulated prices through forward contracts. They talk about a regulated efficient market but the weak gets trampled on in the pursuit for more profits. Why can’t companies be content with achieving a fair profit on their investment? They want to squeeze more and more profits out of the system with little capital investment in human resources and locally produced capital goods.

I have no respect for companies who threaten us with a mass exodus when we start thinking about what is best for us; is South Africa not Sovereignty?
Avatar

bis-k'hallawaya

Posted 109 days ago
...mmm.....have you heard of some guys called collectively Chinese?....
Avatar

SuiGeneris

Posted 109 days ago
You still believe in faery tales !

Dream on !!!!!
Avatar

l984

Posted 109 days ago
"Finally someone in the ANC sticks his head out and behaves like a man. "

I have to agree with you on that one.

It takes a lot of courage to take Africa's biggest and greatest economic powerhouse and democracy - and to turn it into another Cuba, North Korea, Soviet Union or yes - even China.
Avatar

MsLee

Posted 109 days ago
Just because the government the people voted into power has betrayed their expectations doesn't mean that nationalistaion of the mines is viable. The state already owns all of the mineral rights in the country, and earns considerable revenue from the sale of these rights, as well as from mining taxes. Before we do anything else, the real question we need to ask is how is this revenue being used - and why is the poverty gap growing under ANC 'rule' rather than shrinking?

The issue of futures impacting on the cost of commodities is another issue. That practice is coming under scrutiny all over the world - and rightly. But again, that doesn't mean it's a viable proposition to nationalise the banks. State banks can have a meanignful place in the mix - and do in many countries. But the state's record of managing the Land Bank is surely a cautionary tale for us all to consider ...

Finally, in a globalised world, investors will invest where they will be able to achieve a viable return in a secure operating environment. If we don't want to take that fact into account, OK, let's excercise our sovereign rights, nationalise the mines and the banks - and see where that gets us. I suspect the chance of failure in that case would be high - given government's track record so far - and that human suffering would increase considerably (note what happened at Aurora).

My feeling is that if we want widespread economic collapse and perhaps even a working class revolution as a direct result of that - instead of the benefits of a well-managed development state - let's shoot from the hip and nationalise.

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
History has proven that today's absurdity will be tomorrow’s celebrated truths. Our country is possibly the richest in the world, mineral wise but it has a majority of its citizens living in dire poverty. How can we consciously continue to sing a song handed down to us by a system that had South Africa in chains?

How can we continue to support a system that marginalises a horde of intelligent bright graduates into oblivion and despair? I cannot, being sober and consciously aware, believe we still worship such as system.

We need to re-think a better way and cease our heavy dependence on countries with measly resources compared to us. We need to start thinking about getting everyone rich and wealth, not just getting by until month end but a South Africa that tours the world and blessed the world with new technologies, inventions and products. The true natural resource that anyone can lay a claim on is the mind and its unknown powers.
Avatar

buddi

Posted 109 days ago
@Horus
Do you really think that when the mines are nationalised the money will go to the poor? Dream on. Currently the money is not used to uplift the poor, but by looting and mismanagement billions are lost.
1. What gives you the idea that the mines will be run efficiently by the present government?
2. What gives you the idea that the money will be used for upliftment of the poor?
And the transfer of land to the poor without compensation. Never mind the compensation, what are the poor going to do with the land?
Avatar

nsukuangel

Posted 109 days ago
@buddi

I think for a poor person like me, I belive it is better if the money generated from the mines in SA is spent poorly within the shores of this country, than it being spent in London and Sysdney by people i do not even know, if that is where this debate will lead to.... So my point beeing that I for once support what Gwede said yesterday, cos the big question is "WHAT HAS THE MINING INDUSTRY DONE TO OUR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 100 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY WE ARE PROUD OF?" so for me I say its either 50/50 or nothing, this bullying tectics cannot be tolarated anymore.

By the way I am not a suuporter of any political organization I write this in my capacity as a concerned citizen of the Repuplic of South Africa.
Avatar

Mike123

Posted 109 days ago
"History has proven that today's absurdity will be tomorrow’s celebrated truths."

If that is true, then I guess that today we should be celebrating the absurdity that was called apartheid?
Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Mike123 trust me, Apartheid is only a disgrace in retrospect but in its prime it was a novel legendary idea to those who were benefiting.

Slavery was an economic catalyst and therefore a secret weapon for many mushrooming nations of the 1600-1700s. Unfortunately Adam Smith did not mention it as a wonder but we all know that it was celebrated.

Colonisation must have sounded heavenly to Victorian Brits, it spawned new Empires etc. Today corruption among those in the government circles is a divine heaven made idea of self upliftment but it will prove disastrous in the future; unless of course we persuade a critical number to vote for a more intelligent party.
Avatar

Vision2030

Posted 109 days ago

@buddi,

1. What gives you the idea that the mines will be run efficiently by the present government?

i think you are being myopic. state control is by and large inefficient irrespective of the government in power. Your narrow-mindedness party-political leanings cloud your judgement.

MisterWendal

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
If the government must get involved in mining, why don't they do it further down the chain?
How about pumping money into value-added enterprises like the training of jewellers, etc.
Surely that makes more sense than disturbing mineral extraction experts (and risking further corruption-laden BEE deals)? Mining companies can be dealt with by taxation and by enforcing greater social responsibility initiatives. The government should concentrate on job creation by focussing on the refinement of our precious metals - currently our precious minerals are creating jobs for people abroad in India, etc.
Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
I fully agree.
Avatar

Vision2030

Posted 109 days ago
good points, certainly.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 109 days ago
Morning Mr W

Yup instead of NYDA supporting lavish lifestyles for the fat and flatulent they could spend time supporting a local bling industry. At the producer AND consumer ends.


Horus Geez dude make up your mind ek se. How can you write those reams of economic and political guffoonery advocating apocalypse and then calmly agree with Wendal here. Nooit man
what you are doing is a sure sign of mental instability.

Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Mental instability? I did not know you are a shrink. Anyway people start insulting when their minds become too hot to think. Like a car with a broken radiator.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 109 days ago
Horus

Boet there is a LOT you do not know. As evidenced by your massively contradictory stance on this issue.
Avatar

Horus

Posted 108 days ago
Bok's Fanny, I wa driving to work this morning and I noticed that the middle sized cars don't make much noise like a C Class, they quitely get there; the small ones make a halleluva of noise, like the Golf 1. The really big cars don't make noise, they rumble, like the Porsche. I think if you were a car you'd be a small car.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 108 days ago
Heita Horsearse

Rather a small car going forward steadily than a big car upside down in the ditch.

States

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
There are valid points that Gwede is raising in terms of looking at best practises in other countries and that's what makes the difference. The state of our leadership at this point and time is not conducive to deal with the nationalisation issues. First fix the ills of corruption, irregularities, dethroning leaders who has best interest for the people by using political powers. Until such a time all appointed Leaders within ANC can utilize their given powers without fear and intimidation by their own party, and stop enriching themselves instead of really implementing the BATHO PELE policy, the nationalisation of mines will be another scheme for Political Enrichment.

POST94

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Sometimes you really wonder if the Desperate Alliance chihuahuas really read the articles before commenting. The apartheid indocrination project was really a success. Well done Verwoerd!
Avatar

l984

Posted 109 days ago
The world with its history and lessons really goes a bit further and beyond all those things you have mentioned (I would add the ANC chihuahuas to it).

By the way - which indoctrination project are YOU from?
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 109 days ago
Morning 1984


Post94

Rather a sane chihuahua than a rabid kasi brak.
Avatar

l984

Posted 109 days ago
On a second thought - what is there to read in the above article? The ANC itself established a commission which submitted a surprisingly sane and realistic report. But no, the commie wing in the ANC cannot accept and respect its recommendations, all they know it take, nationalize, expropriate, re-distribute... anything but CREATE wealth. Seems all they are good for is to wave their fingers, spew propaganda and attack or threaten the media, the judiciary, the private sector, the investors or anyone opposing them - or even worse - to entice, fool and bait anyone who is desperate, uninformed, naive, young, lazy or greedy enough to buy into their insane utopian ideology - and then impose their trademark 'dictatorship of the proletariat' which only leads into total political and economic oppression - which inevitably ends up in bankruptcy and destruction on all levels.

So if you ask me - rather keep them away from any positions of influence, power or decision-making as they only things they are good for are to expropriate, oppress and destroy.
Avatar

l984

Posted 109 days ago

Morning Bokfan mon cheri, good timing :)

bis-k'hallawaya

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
...All politicians, particularly the most corrupt ones raise valid points. Even Malema trumpeted a few. but the REAL reason, which ANC sheeple and ignorant and uneducated (on purpose) fail to see or understand (or don't want to) is that the drooling creepy leeches down the tree want to replace the ticks already in the tree, as they believe it's their turn to fill their pockets....

The ANC does not have the will, and they are not prepared to relinquish the swill.............

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Just how many conflicting statements have been issued in the name of this organisation, is mind boggling. This "all church" nature of the ANC allows it to be manipulated by those whose voice shout the largest. Hence the battles we experience are for shouting the largest. Malema's nationalisation made him famous, and he had to be 'removed' from influence, only for Mantashe to take it over to use it to manipulate this country.

He manipulated NUM and COSATU to gain control of the SACP, and manipulated the SACP to gain foothold of the ANC. He has manipulated the ANC to control the state. Ironically, he was so disparaging about the very ANC ministers, when he was not inside, until Mbeki called his bluff, and gave him a lucrative post. He cannot go back there because it is difficult, and the citizen hold individual ministers accountable. The ANC position allows him to control the state and the organisation without any accountability.

He must have studied Pik Botha's maneuverings very well.

nsukuangel

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar

I think for a poor person like me, I belive it is better if the money generated from the mines in SA is spent poorly within the shores of this country, than it being spent in London and Sysdney by people i do not even know, if that is where this debate will lead to.... So my point beeing that I for once support what Gwede said yesterday, cos the big question is "WHAT HAS THE MINING INDUSTRY DONE TO OUR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 100 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY WE ARE PROUD OF?" so for me I say its either 50/50 or nothing, this bullying tectics cannot be tolarated anymore.

By the way I am not a suuporter of any political organization I write this in my capacity as a concerned citizen of the Repuplic of South Africa.
Avatar

Vision2030

Posted 109 days ago
WHAT HAS THE MINING INDUSTRY DONE TO OUR COMMUNITIES IN THE PAST 100 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY WE ARE PROUD OF?"

This is a very good question which warrants a response. hence my suggestion that perhaps we need to begin to quantify rather than adhering to beliefs religiously.

I am no believer in nationalisation since I have seen how incapable the state is and can be in running institutions and delivering basic services. This does not however, mean that we should naively put our trust on the 'benevolance' of the so-called investors.
Avatar

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 109 days ago
Come on, now! Have you ever heard of the city gold? or do you live in the rural areas? If not, then do you see all these 'first world' towns and infrastructure, that makes us far better than the other African cities?

I thought this stuff was taught in primary school. Or has our education been 'transformed' beyond recognition?

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
We all agree that the ANC, with its current mentality of getting rich or die trying, will not get us to our economic nirvana. This sad realisation should not deter us from considering methods that can truly liberate our people. We should not disgrace a tool just because the proposed user lacks skill and willingness.

A slow stroll to economic freedom for all (all races) will not yield any fruitage; only a radical intentioned-plan will get us a first class country status. A slow walk to freedom might have worked for Madiba and the problems of his generation but our generation’s problems are quite complex and abstract that we don’t have an identifiable enemy; the enemy walks and eats amongst us.

We really appreciate Mandela and his friends but to gain a permanent hold on our freedom means that we have to operate away from the sluggish ANC and render it impotent within a short period of time. We need a cleverer organisation that is responsive to people’s needs and is intelligent enough to know when to run and when to walk and does not celebrate a defeat of one of its own comrades.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 109 days ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You malema supporters are a danger to yourselves and society at large. Government intervention is 90% poison. It says so right on the lable.

Take a look at Europe. Thanks to governments buying favour with their unproductive electorates ten years into the European dream they are bankrupt. And they are not all lazy thieves and liars like Malema and his gang.

How long do you think it would be before you are begging for a bag of UN mielies.

Never mind the quick walk to freedom

Try the hard work to freedom.

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Your honesty in seeking a solution is admirable. But we must blow away any myth about "economic freedom". It never was, nor will ever be. As long as we live under a nation state and capitalist domination, we are beholden to them. All our lives are in the hands of the state and the banks. You are indebted to both from your house, car, and anything you think you "own".

They have taken away every citizens capacity, even that of building one's own shelter, which even ants can do on their own. Ironically, both the state and the banks cannot produce anything, but are the net consumers of the tax payers' sweat. They have taken over every human capacity to produce for his subsistence, and charge interest and tax from those remaining few, who dare want to produce for profit.

Vision2030

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
I think this debate needs to move beyond the old/ oudated lingo. It is intellectually flawed to see nationalisation as a panacea to take us out of the current monopoly of mineral resources by prvate interest. Nationalisation (of mines) has failed many developing economies such as Zambia and South Africa should be wise enough not to want to travel that route. How about targeted intervention and regulation without necessarily discouraging private investment?
I understand where Gwede is coming from, but surely the ANC should move away from the culture 'f 'endless debates' and start taking concrete policy decisions that will take this country forward. The is no value in endless debates especially if those debates are ill-informed and do not produce any positive, tangible outcomes. Democracy is not just about debates, but decision-making as well.
Having said that I agree with the sentiment that perhaps it is about time that we begin to quantify the impact of investors (mainly foreign) on job-creation in the country. So far, it would seem that people just ASSUME that private invetors are good for the country. How about quantifying their real impact over the years and show those who believe otherwise, that as a country we cannot do without investors?
Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
true

MsLee

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Mr Mantashe needs to get real. Investors will invest where they can get viable returns in a secure operating environment - simple as that. This is the reality of the economic framework the ANC chose in 1994 and, if it wants to choose a different route, then it must live with the consequences.

Also, as always, what Mantashe fails to mention is that the state *already* owns all mineral rights in the country - and earns a substanital income from the sale of mineral rights and from mining taxes. How this revenue is being used, of course, is another story.

And then there's the fact that, on the very same day, two top ANC officials (Manuel and Shabangu) both say the mines won't be nationlaised, while Mantashe says otherwise. This is just another reason why investors think twice about pouring billions of dollars into mining investment in SA - what Manuel aptly calls 'policy uncertainty'. And, in the end, this lack of policy direction is impacting on development in such a way that, as always, it's ordinary people who suffer, not the party elite.
Avatar

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
In reality we don't need nationalisation but a better admnistration of the current status quo. If all the taxes, licence fees etc were used sanely then our country would not need to install toll gates at every street corner, get traffic officers kneeling at every bend of the city roads trying to squeeze every cent out of people. Now our government is trying all sorts of 3rd world tactics to broaden its revenue base.

The older folk say certainly Apartheid was better, we at least had jobs. What's more important between freedom and an ability to feed your family? If I have freedom to roam freely in the Suburbs but my kids go hungry, then what is the use of freedom? Would it be better to be confined to my stable in the homelands?

The ANC has given its constituency a reason to ask all this unprofitable questions.
Avatar

MsLee

Posted 109 days ago
Yup - that's my point - see my response to your comment above.

We really, seriously *never* want to go back to apartheid - I lived through it and I agree with the UN that it was a crime against humanity. But before we do something extremely costly that we'll probably live to regret deeply as a nation, let's make sure that revenues from the sale of mineral rights and from mining taxes are being used properly (which, needless to say, they clearly aren't at the moment).

bis-k'hallawaya

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
......On the other hand, "investors" prepared to bring money here, will do so if they are completely sure they will get a generous profit.....which means they will have to oil some deep pockets and become "friends of the revolution"......Basically a juicy tender deal........
Avatar

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 109 days ago
Horror of Horrors! The contradictions could be a deliberate ploy to extract bribes from the most powerful! Just like Walmart was screwed up to prop up the South African capitalist, at the expense of the consumer.

Talk of hypocricy!

Horus

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
BokFanny, I wonder when was noise ever considered a good point?
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 109 days ago
"In reality we don't need nationalisation but a better admnistration of the current status quo."

Horus 7/2/2012


"Nationalisation is a feasible, viable and possibly the best way to empower the black population. Land reform through land transference without compensation is another viable method of ensuring the lower income groups are not at the mercy of large commercial farmers and merchant banks who gamble on the prices of crucial commodities such as maize and wheat."

Horus 7/2/2012


I rest my case your honour. Bring the straitjacket please.

MoBlaq

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
Catching a wake up call finally Cde Secretary General. It's been long time coming and it's been 17yrs since multiparty democracy and there hasn't been any economic transformation in SA. Now time to see real leadership in terms of the economy.

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
I like it when Mr Motomouth says that investors should not be used to 'blackmail' him. Why then did he not stay with his political investment in the SACP, or the NUM? It is for the same reason that investors cannot waste their money where the state wants to share with them. Both do not produce anything, but use their largesse to earn their living.

He cannot be that dumb, or is he?

bis-k'hallawaya

Posted 109 days ago
Avatar
FOOD for tots:.........

"Analysis: What would happen to SA if mines were nationalised?

Nothing good, the experts say. That’s the short answer. The long one is a little more nuanced than that, but it still spells doom for the country should the ANC Youth League have its way with the economy. By SIPHO HLONGWANE." Daily Maverick 23-6-2011........

"The Chinese model is morbidly obese
South Africa wants to adopt 'the Chinese economic model', President Jacob Zuma is expected to announce this week. This would be a very grave mistake. The Chinese miracle is not what it seems. Just like with the American and European debt crises, this will become painfully clear soon enough. But sadly not by Thursday" IVO VEGTER Daily Maverick today........


Tswanalised

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
It was plato who once said democracy and good governance can only be ensured if we are ruled by philosopher-kings.
We need more shrewd leaders to take our country forward. I mean how can a country like SA, with a liberal consititution follow the Chinese model? China is unpretentiously UNDEMOCRATIC, so I wonder why the ANC is so fascinated with it?
Avatar

Tswanalised

Posted 108 days ago
the next thing they will tell us that democracy is not good for us.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 108 days ago
Well its the only system around where two devils can outvote one angel.





bis-k'hallawaya

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
""Vavi calls for rediscovery of 'revolutionary morality' in ANC
Sapa | 07 February, 2012 13:44

The ANC must rediscover its "revolutionary morality", so its leaders can be selfless, honest, and live with integrity, Cosatu said on Tuesday.""""""


LOOK WHO'S TALKING TOO.............

COSATU's deafening silence on Godongwana's "moment of weakness"......and on Aurora's Kubuluse Zuma+Zondwa Mandela failure to pay the miners for over 2 years while living "la vida loca"..........and on SADTU 'slower than slow' performance in benefit of the 'apartheid liberated' students.................

Razzo

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
Somehow those who advocate the argument that state involvement in mining is a "rotten" idea seem to have forgotten that Botswana, Chille, Norway, Venuzuella have got it right in respect to partial Nationalisation. Guys, the point here is that South Africa is the worlds richest country in terms of mineral resources but its majority population live in abject and perpetual poverty. For the greater good of the poor and the vast majority who suffer, something has got to change or else we will spiral into uncontrollable poverty which eventually tends to lead to war - (look north of our borders in many other African countries.

The Economic Liberation of the masses will lead to many advantages like a decrease in crime (which everyone wants to see completely wiped out), a decrease in disease, in malnutrtion of babies and will see an increase in the child mortality rate. This will also see the wage and economic gap decreased and will lead our people to affording a life that is both dignified and proper. Saudi Arabia is the richest oil producing country and look at how their people are well taken care of. The problem in Africa is that our minerals are controlled by foreigners who do not give a damn about our people but only care for profits. I honestly think we should stop thinking about being either black or white first or rather ANC or DA but think that WE ARE SOUTH AFRICAN FIRST AND THEN THE REST SECOND because these mineral resources are the keys to our liberation......all of us both black and white. We cannot have western governements and Capitalists wagging their finger at us about our diamonds, gold and platinum. If they dont like how we do business, then we will look for other markets.

Avatar

Diode

Posted 108 days ago
Saudi Arabia?

Last I looked they were happily selling their unrefined oil to dreadful capitalists all over the world.

The Saudi 'citizens' are well looked after as long as they follow his master's voice. Deviations are harshly punished.

A visit might change your mind on this idea.
Avatar

BokFan

Posted 108 days ago
The reason you live in abject poverty is because you are a small win destination for investment.

If we were a big win destination this place would be lit up like Vegas.

Horrible thought I know. But lets face thats what you bling addicts dream about isnt it.

l984

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
"how can a country like SA, with a liberal consititution follow the Chinese model? China is unpretentiously UNDEMOCRATIC, so I wonder why the ANC is so fascinated with it?"

"The Saudi 'citizens' are well looked after as long as they follow his master's voice. Deviations are harshly punished. "

I fail to understand how and why those who have suffered under apartheid and have had to struggle and fight for their freedoms are the same ones so fascinated with other undemocratic and oppressive regimes and even dream of replicating them?!

Truly mind-boggling.

Nwanawamukalaha

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
''The beauty of minerals is that they are not mobile. The beauty of it is that you will come and find them here. I don't think we should use the blackmail approach in discussing an important policy matter in the ANC. And I think even . the threat of [saying the nationalisation of mines] is unaffordable [should be discouraged].''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where does this leave Susan Shabangu and Trevor Manuel after saying NOM is not viable?

Spitfire

Posted 108 days ago
Avatar
Mantashe: We are thinking about stealing the mines from their shareholders, investors and owners.
Investors: Mmm...then we will invest elsewhere and not in South Africa.
Mantashe: Stop bullying us!!

It is quite evident that Mantashe has no idea how the world works! He is a complete fool.