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Wed May 22 05:04:17 SAST 2013

'Sorry not enough'

Nivashni Nair and ANDREA NAGEL | 28 May, 2012 00:11
City Press editor Ferial Haffajee File photo

City Press editor Ferial Haffajee apologised to President Jacob Zuma's family yesterday for the hurt her newspaper caused them by publishing a picture of The Spear - but the ANC dug in its heels, saying it would not accept an apology "through the media".

"Ferial knows where we are. She must come to us and say this, not in a paper which we do not read. She knows what we want. We want the image to be removed and an apology. Otherwise, we don't want to hear anything else," said ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu.

"That so-called apology will mean nothing because we are not marching to the City Press. We are marching to voice our outrage and anger over the insult to another human being, that human being our President Jacob Zuma," Mthembu said.

Mthembu, along with ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe and the SA Communist Party, last week called on their members to boycott the paper until it apologised and removed the controversial image of Zuma with his genitals exposed from its website.

They also vowed to go ahead with a march tomorrow to Johannesburg's Goodman Gallery, which exhibited the painting before it was defaced.

In an interview with The Times yesterday, after the appearance of her apology to Zuma's daughter, Duduzile, which took the form of an open letter printed in her newspaper, Haffajee went a step further, saying she would, after discussions with ANC alliance leaders, be prepared to remove the image of the painting by artist Brett Murray from the City Press website because it was not worth "what we are going through".

Haffajee said that she and her journalists had received death threats because of the publishing of the picture.

"I would be stupid and suicidal not to open a series of talks this week because it has been a painful week for my colleagues. I had a colleague thrown out of the NUM congress. It is a political year, I cannot afford to be on the margins of reporting life," she said.

Haffajee said she has approached both the ANC and the SACP to negotiate an amicable solution to the situation.

"I am meeting the SACP [today]. I have called for a meeting with the ANC since they called the boycott [of City Press] last Wednesday and I haven't had a positive response but I will make another call and ask for that," she said.

Haffajee said she had not been bullied by News24 executives into making an apology but had received "support from them from day one".

SACP spokesman Malesela Maleka said: "We are prepared to meet City Press if that would perhaps help them better understand the outrage of our people and contribute to taking matters positively forward."

Mthembu yesterday vehemently denied accusations that the ANC was using the furore around The Spear to gain political sympathy for Zuma in the run-up to the party's elective conference in Mangaung, in December.

"I think that is bulls**t. That's nonsensical. It is not only the ANC that is against it [the painting]. We got members of civil society and of the churches. We got Barend la Grange [one of two men arrested for defacing the painting in the Goodman Gallery last week] who is not even an ANC member. Why?

"At any rate, Zuma is not threatened by any elective conference," said Mthembu. "Why would we use this insulting image to mobilise? What does Mangaung have to do with an insult to Zuma?''

But The Times understands that the ANC missed a chance to have the issue settled quietly by meeting representatives of the gallery on the day the picture was published by City Press. It is understood that the delegation was pulled back.

''We never knew about that gallery thing until I was contacted by someone from Sowetan [newspaper],'' said Mthembu.

''When we saw it, we were freaked out. Gwede [Mantashe] was with me. So there was no discussion prior to that.

"We then said let's ask our lawyers to send a letter to the gallery and that's exactly what they did. We said let's ask our lawyers to indicate our difficulties with this. So that's how we spoke to the gallery and to City Press as well. That was our line of thought.

"We said 'Take it down; this is insulting. This is by no means telling you what to display.' We put our reasons in writing and they have it," Mthembu said.

He said Zuma had not ordered the party to fight the gallery and City Press.

''It's not even Zuma who took up this matter. It's us as the ANC. Zuma has not even seen this. He did not instruct us.''

But The Times has learned that Arts and Culture Minister Paul Mashatile missed an opportunity to defuse the controversy around The Spear when one of his special advisers failed to arrive for a scheduled meeting with Goodman Gallery owner Liza Essers.

Mashatile's office contacted Essers on Sunday May 13, a few days after the opening night of Murray's exhibition Hail to the Thief II.

The approach was made the same day that the article ''R136000 for Zuma's jewels'' was published by City Press, accompanied by an image of the work.

"I invited special adviser to Minister Mashatile, Mduduzi Mbada, to come and view the work and arranged to meet him on Tuesday May 15 at 11am in the gallery.

"I was more than willing to discuss the ministry's concerns," said Essers.

Mbada did not arrive for the meeting and Essers later received an SMS saying that he had had to catch a flight to Cape Town.

On Thursday May 17, Essers was served with court papers from the ANC and an ANC press statement.

Essers contacted Mbada again on Monday May 21 "to see what could be done to control the situation".

They arranged a meeting for the next day.

Essers said: "While I was on my way to meet Mr Mbada I received news that the artwork had been defaced.

"I had to abandon the meeting to deal with the case of malicious damage to property and the matter of temporarily closing the gallery."

Essers later received correspondence from the Ministry of Arts and Culture to the effect that the ANC was not prepared to withdraw its high court application for an order that the picture be removed from display.

Mbada also dismissed claims that there was pressure from within the ANC to discourage discussion between the Ministry of Arts and Culture and the Goodman Gallery.

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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
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So the thick plottens.
What is the ANC's motivation for making this molehill into a mountain? What are they slipping in under the radar whilst the media is fixated on this? They used to use Malema to create their media blinkers but now they have to rely on Credit-Card-Paul to do nothing.

Duzula

Posted 358 days ago
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If sorry is not enough, what is the ANC looking for or wants to gain in this issue.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
Ferial is right by saying 'sorry' in the public. In that way she is calling off the ANC bluff. They have been fumbling for a Mbeki to bolster Zuma's prospects of re-election, and with the loss of Malema, they are scraping the bottom for one. They have found one in Zuma's penis, as they did in Mbeki. And they won't let it go easily, until they find another substitute.

The painting is damaged and out of the picture. Attempts were made to accommodate them, and were rejected. The City Press banning was unsuccessful. The race card has not played in court, and their legal representative was reduced to tears by a simple question. The great penis revolution will now centre on the apology.

Gormogon1

Posted 358 days ago
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As usually, the ANC are up to their dirty tricks. They simply do not want anyone to see them for who they really are. They are an organisation of dirty tricksters and liars, trying, at all cost, to keep their sheep focused on trivial matters.

l984

Posted 358 days ago
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In reply to the first 2 comments (or is it rhetoric questions):

h t t p://w w w.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2012/05/28/riding-victimhood-to-power
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
I read that. I'm not convinced that this has anything to do with Zuma anymore. It is looking more and more like a smokescreen. The ANC is deliberately creating a 'them vs us' scenario so it is either an attempt to create divisions because they perceive that their handling of things like the e-toll, education etc is costing them or it is a ploy to keep the media busy and out of a new armsdeal type deal (or some similar skulduggery)
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Duzula

Posted 358 days ago
This is a cover up, the is something more to come out of Zuma Administration.
Ask yourself this Question why all the HULLABALOO about this.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
But in all fairness the ANc did not start all this. It was the media and murray in their short-sightedness and their tendency to disrespect black peole that provided the ANC with the ammunition.
Remember, the ANC let the struggle against racism in south africa, so it becames instinctive for them to deal harshly with incidents of racism - such as this one. Do santo and de klerk started it, and Murray was the last straw...
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l984

Posted 358 days ago

@ Momma - It's all part of the (same) package...

pun not intended :)
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
:) and what an ugly and convoluted package that is turning out to be
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KafreeMoneykey

Posted 358 days ago
@Tlatlariso, the ANC is responsible for racialising this issue! I for one was directtly affected by apartheid and sometimes the emotions gets too much when I think of what the past robbed me and my family. We will never forget however, we need not be taken for a ride especially when it comes to mattes of nation building. Notwithstanding the disrespect that My President is feeling, the painting is nothing but accurate of what is happening in this country and an accurate relfection of his behaviours, full stop!
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l984

Posted 358 days ago

@ Momma - I am not too sure which image actually represents the bigger 'picture' and the more gruesome reality: the original painting (which has now been removed from the gallery and City Press website) - or its defaced version...
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
@K,

Eish man! your name sends shivers over my spine. Do you really mean what the name seems to suggest? Anyway, I guess its 'freedom fo expression' even if it offends others.

Coming back to your poinst, I fully agree that as south africans we should not allow ourselves to be held at ransom in the name of 'liberation' speak. However, I disagree with you that the anc is to faulted on their take on the portrait and what they think it represents. It is not just the ANC that is offended by the picture, most black south africans are. There are some whites also who find teh picture to be grossly racist and unnecessary. I listen to one white lady on teh Justice malala show yesterday, who feels that the pictures essesntailly express latent racial stereotypes that white people have about a black male...
I am not trying to throw a spin for JZ, I think Mac is doing a great job already. My unease and disgust are on teh images that a white privileged viewpoint has about me, as a black person and the subtle expressions they make in that regard. I will not accept any stereotypical representation of myself or any black person for that matter. We have been receipients of white offense for a very long time, and we cannot travel that route anymore...Certainly not.
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KafreeMoneykey

Posted 358 days ago
@Tlatlaristo. What is so striking about my name?

Daffy

Posted 358 days ago
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this is not about the spear anymore but about getting the campaigning off the ground! what a brilliant opportunity to play on the masses (our people) emotions and needs. and in the process trampling on the right and dignity of all women. as a man i would urge that all women bloggers should support Fariel because this is about you as well, it says a lot about how the ANC sees women inside or outside the party.

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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
I dont see the connection you are trying to make here. where does gender fit in here? How do you make ferial's issue a women issue?
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a_stub_born

Posted 358 days ago
.......perhaps because Hafferjee happens to be a woman, and it is clear that our 'martyr' Prez hates her gonads fortitude.....
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
very speculative indeed. Fariel is a very 'lastig' journalist. she has a holier than thou attitude. She always punches above her weight and whe she gets squashed, she cries foul.
She must just resign as editor-in-chief and give some more progressive journalists a chance.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
Surely, a people must be able to protect themselves from an imposition of an incompetent, corrupt leader upon them by a few corrupt elite, to cash in on 'democracy'. They must able to remove an incompetent president who has proven that his interest lies in a cushy retirement. The constitution was fully aware that a winner of elections is a majority of the minorities, not of the whole population. It was also fully aware that winning elections benefits a few elite at the top. It must have had the benefit of hindsight, about the limitations and restraints of government, the great frailty and corruption of human nature, that no human being can be trusted with unlimited authority.

But it never envisage that an old man would emerge to reverse every human advancement back to his traditional way of understanding. From the very party which had professed to have the interest of the 'people' at heart. No one would have believed in 1994, that our so-called 'liberators' would be our worst oppressors,and within such a short period of time? Even Mandela's "Never, Never again" must have 'never' thought that ambition, greed, corruption, and all what history has been teaching, would emerge from his party, and in his lifetime. We are caught in this cauldron, and we still think its not happening, because it is just impossible. But this is real, and we must accept that it is happening. Right in front of our eyes!

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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
@mIsi,
what you on about really? so many assertions, but what exactly are you raising here? you seem to be all over the place and nowhere at the same time.
'oppressors'? who is oppressing who in the case that we are talking about? you come across as mourner who is not sure as to the exact source of his anguish.
zuma may not the 'best' president we have, bur surely that does not mean people should humilaite him willy nilly. there are other respectable ways of expressing disavow against a particular leader, but the 'Spear" approach is certainly not one of them. Just be reminded that your hatred of zuma's preferred lifestyle remain just your view. there is nothing constitutionally amiss about polygammy or any cultural practice for that matter. do not impose your anger and hatred of zj on everybody.
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inkunzi

Posted 358 days ago
Hahahaha, when others see racists undertones on this issue they are harshly told it's not about racism. How is about sexism?
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
Tlatlaristo

Your problem could be manifold. But like all the elite, the most important is their quest to impose some limitations to the public mind. It is enough to fill the public mind with Zuma's genitals, so that they can be angry enough to bring down the whole country. But the public brain must not synthesize things and get to the bottom of the whole farce. Dictators always do this, but like Gaddaffi, they get surprised when they realise that they have always been victims of their own propaganda.

There are no limitations to human imaginations, you can fill the brain with the noise in rallies and marches, which reduce people to marching and singing robots. People attend these marches, because they have been taught that they are the only way to exercise their political rights. In fact they have been conditioned into a belief that they do not have any rights except those that are given to them by the party elite.

To try to reason with such ilk is like trying to persuade a rock not to crush you. Even Zuma understands this very well.
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Daffy

Posted 358 days ago
@Tlatlaristo
it is a gender issue because when the ANC agreed to meet Ruel Khoza when he was "out of line". but they have not acknowledged any request to meet from the Editor. thats hsows that howmeasy they find it to lambast women but treat men differently. another point you observe is that when Cope was launched all the heckling was never about Lekota or Mbhazima's gender but with Hellen Zille or Lindiwe Mazibuko it was always their gender (tealayd and madam) if you want a job at the ANC join! but dont do it for free!!
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
daffy, I really fail to follow your logic. sorry man.

7000000

Posted 358 days ago
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The ANC have turned into a battleground for no genuine reason. A good leader like Madiba or Tambo could have handled this matter to extant that today it will not be an issue no more. I think Comrade Zuma must just call his dogs to hold their tongue because clearly the damage have already been done. The enemy archived his mandate and there is nothing that can be done about that enough! The lady (Haffajee) has apologized what more does these buffoons need , the more they keep the painting issue on the news there more the damage and lasting memory will be inflicted of the event that happened at the Goodman Gallery. They must just let it flow like muddy water in the river during the rainy season. The less they talk about it the less it will be forgotten. Fighting the battle a legal way will be just a waist of time because they will not win it. Legally the owner of the painting have a standing to win the case!!

a_stub_born

Posted 358 days ago
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HA HA HA HA HA........."Bulls..t" is what Jack (Daniels) Mthembu like his 'brother in Nazareth" Eunoch is talking......It is just a ploy, the "SA-fricanus Circus" written, produced and directed by the Mafia party to divert attention of the inefficiency and corruption and cronyism.......

Whoever inside the dark alleys of the ANC ideated the plot (certainly not "I-know-what-I'm-doing rabbit Prez) is trying to shoot several birds with one shot: create diversion from the EVERY SINGLE DAY uncovered corruption and the REWARDING of CORRUPT cadres (Hey!...The ANC is planning to give Generalissimo Cele another redeployment, just as an example); the censorship of the media and total control of the press and by the way eliminating pesky City Press and not less pesky journalists like Hafferjee....the false impression of "unity" of the ANC (the cracks exposed by Julius and taken over by Sexwale) + De-Luxe-commies + COSATU (they are playing difficult lately).......Mantashe inciting to a "peaceful march, ANC style" when the Mthembu brothers are frothing through the mouth........

.....If they could ever hijack Nelson Mandela again for this theatrics, they surely would.........
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
i think you are bluffing. It is not zuma or the anc which started this whole nonsense, but rather the media, goolam gallery and murray (the rcist himself). they are the ones who started the noise, and now that public opinion is against them, your likes say we should put the matter to rest. This is very convenient of you people...
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a_stub_born

Posted 358 days ago
...he he he....Think not!....I am not bluffing. The truth is a s clear as the day!....If you care to read the diverse opinions in any printed media, you will realize that Zuma and the current ANC are using the event to sort out their sordid mess........Then again, you may choose not. It is a free country..still...........

And the end result of all this Circus is just to entrench corrupt politicians into power. No more no less!!!!.........Has any of the comedians ever thought about SA as a nation ????????..............

SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
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There is nothing genuine about the ANC leadership. However the uneducated and unsofisticated will be impressed with their latest antics and therefore the country will be in for much of the same for many years to come. What a shame!!!
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inkunzi

Posted 358 days ago
People who think just because they support a certain view they are better, more educated and more sophisticated than others, like yourself, are the biggest fools. I'm educated and believe sophisticated when I have to be and live in the northern suburbs of Jozi but I believe the painting is tasteless and offensive. Does that make me an uneducated mass? Someone once said, 'the biggest mistake that one can make is overestimating oneself.' the likes of you, just because you have issues with the ANC, think that what makes you superior intellectually is your opposing view on the ANC. If you were smarter you'd realise that equally, others have a right to see things differently.
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
inkunzie I also think the painting is tasteless and disgusting. But the issue is not that what you and I think. Your beloved ANC calls it racist and that is the issue at the moment. I honestly see nothing racist except the ANC leadership who by calling this racist have shown their true colors. The ANC needs to divide people on racial lines otherwise they will have nothing else to offer. Their inability to move forward over the past eighteen years is proof of that.

Stirrer

Posted 358 days ago
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While Zuma is quietly giggling in the background, the ANC have successfully turned this private matter between Zuma and Murray into a public matter between black and white.
What has this got to do with blacks - for that matter what has this got to do with the ANC? There was only one tollie on display, and that belongs to a serial adulterer!

a_stub_born

Posted 358 days ago
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..To 1984,

also read: CHRIS THURMAN: "As in Hamlet, Zuma betrays himself in his moral outrage" Business Day.
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l984

Posted 358 days ago

... or as in one of Zapiro's latest cartoons...

h t t p://w w w.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/06/13/zapiro-cartoons#3
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
also read adam habib's take on thurman on the issue...you might chnage your view or at least get a dose of balanced representation

Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
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Ferial's apology is not convincing at all. Firstly she made it in an open letter instead of going to the zuma family directly.
Secondly, in the entire letter, there is no instance where she says 'I am sorry'. She goes on and on with a whole lot of issues, but fall short of making an unqualified apology.

It is interesting that the only time she began to consider her stance, was when there was a call to 'boycott' the city press newspaper. It was only when she realised teh financial ramifications. This is very sad and deviod of principle...
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
if you bother to read the article, you'd see that attempts were made to make contact. Both the gallery and Ferial tried to get meetings which never materialised.

Why should she make an unqualified apology about reporting on an item of news? That is what her job is. The fact that City Press broke the story is irrelevant. It is a public gallery with a picture on public view and, therefore, in the public domain.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
it is not the breaking of the story that is at issue here. what is being contended is their insistence to keep the portrait on their website. it is their initial refusal to see the offensive nature of the portrait that angered the anc and others concerned. in refusing to heed to the imperative of common decency, they became co-offenders in the whole process.
Let us face the truth, Ferial only retreated when she was threatened with boycot of the city press newspaper. it was money, not virtue that forced her to 'apologise'. that is why her apology cannot be acceptable...
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
I find the pictures of children being taught under trees 'offensive'. I find pictures of police brutality 'offensive'. I find pictures of women being harassed by taxi drivers 'offensive'. I don't, however, blame the newspaper for printing them - I blame the ones who are creating the offence.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
I think the correct term is 'shooting the messenger'.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
the problem with 'the messenger', is taht she refused to distance herself from the message. in fact, she appropriated the message and told the recepient that she fully agrees with the mesage, and if you have issues, you can take me to court.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
Of course I am offended by those. I was simply stating the latest stories. This site doesn't have enough place on it to list the things that offend me and are in the newspapers. The point is that as much as I would love to not see those offensive stories, I am not going to go all fatwa on the newspaper as they are not to blame. They simply report what is happening, they don't create it.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
the stories i cited, except one, are very recent i.e two to three weeks ago. it is interesting what captures our immediate attention as people. it all boils down to our upbringing and the values we internalise in life. your 'big story' may not be my big story, because of different cultural-ideological lenses we use to look at reality.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
Some of your stories are 3 or 4 YEARS ago. Mine were from yesterday and today.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
a blatant lie from you, and you know it. de klerk did not utter what he 4 years ago. visagie was on radio LAST week. do santos - the model' story was 3 weeks ago.
The thing is 'todays' or yesterdays' stories are given context by earlier stories. that is why we talk of history and memory...
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
I have no idea why your comment was removed but the dead guy being thrown to a lion was NOT last week

GregQuinn

Posted 358 days ago
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If only the ANC would put as much effort and energy into running this country as they would into the fuss over a painting of JZ's genitals. This is one government whose priorities are upside-down in all the wrong places. The ANC is a disgrace to politics.

Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
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This racist, unfair reprsenation of msholozi has won him many friends. I am one of his sternest critiques, but after seeing the portrait and its racial undertones, i have tilted back to the black nationalistic fold. The 'us' versus 'them' dichotomy, which I had long thrown away, came back to live. I hate it, but it is our unfortunate reality.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
Please could you explain why you see 'racist' in this?
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Polony_Lips

Posted 358 days ago
Please explain how the hell the painting is racist ??? I don't think you quite get the term "racists"

Let me explain.... If it was 1980 and you were getting on the bus, you would have to sit at the back... THATS RACIST
If it were the the 70s' the benches on all the beaches said - " whites only " ... THATS RACIST
If it were 20 years ago, and you were not allowed into a shopping mall cause you are black.... THATS RACIST

Please study the english language and UNDERSTAND what something means before you use the word.

This painting is in no way racist, unless his penis is supposed to be white ?
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 358 days ago
"The 'us' versus 'them' dichotomy, which I had long thrown away, came back to live." Only because you want it to. I'm yet to read anything sensible that clearly indicates how this painting is unacceptable, but the painting from a couple of years ago with Zuma and Tutu in various states of undress is acceptable. I don't care what colour the artist is by the way, it's of no consequence. Do I like either paintings - no. But that is also not the point.
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
Please explain the racial tone. All I saw was a disgusting picture of a disgusting man. Nothing less and nothing more.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
it is racist in so far as it is premised on the historical western representation of a black man sexuallity. That is, it is wild, uncontrolled and bordering on the excess. Historically, black man' sexuality has awalys been presented as an instrument of raw, uncivilised power which poses a threat to society.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
@thula...
the picture you are referring to is convoluted. didn't you see taht it has a groteque of almost everybody including some white figures?
the spear on the other hand isolate one man (a black man), and exposes his genitals in a manner that feeds into colonial sterotypes of a sexually rapacious black man. I have a good appreciation of art, but also i am alive to the fact that art has and can still be used to racially stereotype people. 'Art' reflects teh values and prejudices of the artist, and the spear reveals murrays true colours.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
A similar painting was done by a black artist and a similar painting was done of a white prime-minister. The issue is NOT about the 'what ifs'. It is about concrete proof that it is not about some perceived rampant sexuality but rather about the president himself. Ours just happens to be black.

Your abuse and mis-use of the race card simply cheapens it. When REAL race issues come up, they are not given the seriousness that they deserve because too many people keep crying 'wolf' at the slightest (and most ridiculous) excuse.

Call it 'racially insensitive' or 'ignorant' or 'un-acceptable' but leave the poor tattered race card out of it for once
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago

( the spear on the other hand isolate one man (a black man), and exposes his genitals in a manner that feeds into colonial sterotypes of a sexually rapacious black man. I have a good appreciation of art, but also i am alive to the fact that art has and can still be used to racially stereotype people. 'Art' reflects teh values and prejudices of the artist, and the spear reveals murrays true colors. ) And this comment reveals your true colors. Why do you ignore the artists avid avid and explanation. Perhaps it does not fit your agenda. The question is why??? Only you will know the answer to this.

(it is racist in so far as it is premised on the historical western representation of a black man sexuallity. That is, it is wild, uncontrolled and bordering on the excess. Historically, black man' sexuality has awalys been presented as an instrument of raw, uncivilised power which poses a threat to society.) This is your own persception based on a lie created by yourself for your own sinister agenda.


AlecC

Posted 358 days ago
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@Tlatlaristo

Don't understand what race has to do with this. Press need to be free. Free speech is paramount. Narrowmindedness and ancient, so-called cultures, should catch a wakeup. Some seem to invent their culture as the go through life. Tolerance and awareness of what is happening around us is necessary. Some groups should stop feeling sorry for themselves and do something positive, like getting an education, to improve their lives.
Tired of this theory people have adopted that only a white people can be racist. I know and have heard of many racists amongst the other race groups. Even our government and its policies can be considered racist. A fool is a fool no matter what race group he belongs to and no matter who says it. Race, as an excuse for incompetence, is a poor excuse.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
Its only the mind of a seagull that can be aroused by allegations of skin colour in a picture. Very few animals eat their own carcass, but human beings do. Besides the real eating of human flesh, human advancement includes denying existence of his fellow beings. By demanding taxes from products of people's intellect, and sweat, governments are able to squeeze out lives from citizens, whilst enriching a few. Excuses must be found to do this, the most convenient one is race, because no one can prove it, and thus account for allegations.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
If I pull off a trigger in the direction of a group of people, and one them falls down dead, there is a good basis to believe tha I pulled off a trigger in order to bring him down. this is exactly what murray did...

swona1

Posted 358 days ago
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I was shocked by Juju's support for the city press, that made me not to buy it yesterday, for the 1st time in 8yrs!
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 358 days ago
Hahahaha. Good point.

Interesting how this issue occurs and he's all about the freedom of the press.......until it's an issue about his finances and his tax situation and then they're all evil b@stards!
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
Strange as it may sound, but I have never heard Malema supporting the Info Bill. I would be surprised if he did, after Kgalema's opposition to it. He did verbally abuse a British journo, but he would know he solely the product of the media, which his mother does not want to admit.

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
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"is solely"
"mother body"

1tsotsi

Posted 358 days ago
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I dont fear zuma, but the muthi his using againgst gwede and jackson, they have become his lapdogs. This has nothing to do with the anc as they claim, but zuma as an moron individual.

BobbyBob

Posted 358 days ago
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Enough nonsense already. What about us, who have a president who makes a mockery of morality, probity and dignity, by throwing his sexuality at our faces at every turn, with his 5 or so wives, couple of dozen children and his extra marital affairs. Dont we have a right to be offended?
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KafreeMoneykey

Posted 358 days ago
You do not have to be offended by him having more than one wife and many children, it is within his rights as a polygamist. You have a right to be offended with his extra-marital affairs, yes...
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
kafreeMoneykee

You know I am not so sure whether I buy your polygamy and cultural argument.
The Brett Murray painting has stimulated much discussion and debate. My views on the racism aspect as highlighted by the ANC leadership is clear so let us leave it there for the mean time.

One of the key arguments coming from the people who were angered by the painting is the question of culture. People say that polygamy is part of Zulu culture and as such should not be criticized or condemned. Let me be clear that I have no problem with polygamy in the Zulu culture. I have a problem with it in my own culture as I believe it is not in line with the modern world we live in and as long as we want to benefit from the modern world we have to adapt.

Many years ago in my culture women were not allowed to sit with the men in church. Women also did not have a vote in those days. But as the world modernized these practices were abandoned and women got equal rights to men. ( some women will vehemently disagree with me on this one.) the point I am trying to make is that as the world becomes more and more sophisticated and modern cultures evolve and adapt to the new challenges facing us.

I speak to many black women who tells me that they have lost all their respect for the men in their culture as they treat women as unequals. Yet these same women end up raising kids, work to provide for their offspring with the men conspicuous in their absence. Surely times has changed where the chief had many wives working in the fields while the men drank beer and did nothing.

It seems to me the Zulu culture wants to keep certain aspects of their culture like polygamy and domination of women intact whilst it also wants to share in the niceties of a modern world none of which was part of their culture. This selective display of culture is what makes it difficult for me to understand and respect the Zulu culture.

One thing I know for sure is that it is not Zulu culture to have a promiscuous life out of wedlock. I wonder if this culture defense is not the same thing as the racism defense used by the ANC leadership. Divert attention from the true issues and that is their incompetence as a political party and government. I mean what have they actually achieved in eighteen years of rule. The only thing they have done and keep on doing is devide the people of this country along racial and cultural lines. They should be brought to book by their constituents but it is not happening. What a sad state of affairs.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 358 days ago
@Secret Voice

Common sense dictates that one cannot speak "democracy" and "polygamy" in the same breath. The two don't cross. If, by any twisted logic, these were to coexist, then sex-crazed king would simply use tax payers' money and "lobola" all women in a country. As women are traditionally not allowed to oppose a king, all these women would vote for the king. This would spell the end of such "democracy".

The point is that the elite have flushed the public mind with such rubbish as "Zulu" culture, as if such terms are static. Everyone reminisces about a distant past, when things were "normal", as if there is any such. This is one of the ways the elite have used to run away from the responsibilities and accountability for their evil deeds. Terms like 'past imbalances' have become a reality, as if there has ever been a single conception of such 'past'. And we have all bought into these lies, for the sake of being 'politically correct'.

If we accept this 'culture' thing, then we must accept that traditionally, men and women hung their genitals out in the open, like all animals. We can't keep running to the fuzzy 'past' every time we are supposed to deal with present complexity. As if there is a single 'past' for everyone. Every man is inherently sex-crazed, but times prevent us from behaving like animals - in the name of the 'past'. Enough of this!
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KafreeMoneykey

Posted 358 days ago
@SecretVoice. Please note that polgamy is not only limited to Zulu culture, it cut across many cultures. Equally so, not all Zulus are polygamist. On the selectivity issue, you are making a mistake of confusing modernisation to westernisation...that is what most people do.

Mpu

Posted 358 days ago
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Mpu

I have decided to cancel my union memebership.I will join a union which is not affiliated to cosatu. I am tired of abusive language form the alliance.they are getting more aggresive by the day and they are showing their hatret of women in actions,language and u can even see from their executive memebers,less women.cosatu is the leader in the hatred of women,they have no women in their top structures.I am a womam,i have a daughter and i am scared for her future, if this tendencies continue.I will subscribe to city press and make a donation to OUTA for their legal costs against etolls

TonyGreatdane

Posted 358 days ago
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Anyone watch the movie called "Wag the Dog"........similar scenario....president "in trouble" create diversion ...in the movie the diversion was a war........

Realist1000

Posted 358 days ago
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The ANC does not like any negative publicity so the free press is victimised.

If the show fits get used to wearing it, is my answer to JZ and his comrades.

Just imaging what they will do with the Secrecy Bill.

Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
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I am really tired of this racism denialism. Not that I expect racists to raise up their hands and say 'yes, we are racists'. People lack courage of their convictions.
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
I wait for you to raise your hand and admit that you are a racist. Your comments confirm this without fear of contradiction.All that remains now is for you to admit it.
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Tlatlaristo

Posted 358 days ago
unfortunately a protest against racism will sometimes, inevitably be couched in racial language. however, that does not mean that the protester is racist. most whyet people hold prejudicial views about black people ... it is just a matter of degree...Visagie and ET were at the extreme end. Of course, there are blacks who respond in a racist manner to these prejudices. But again using illegal mechanisms in selfl-defence (against a criminal) does not mean that you are a criminal.
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SecretVoice

Posted 358 days ago
Amen.
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a_stub_born

Posted 358 days ago
tla tlaristo

....I read Adid Habib on Thurman published in the New Age (official ANC media and owned by the 'Kali has many hands inside the ANC' faction).....OK, seriously: Prof Thurman slightly criticizes the "ANC overreaction". He says the media, artist and supporters of the painting have the intention to humiliate the Prez. Taking his own words and his analysis on the matter, then why Adid Habib does not compare or criticize the equally raw and crude painting from Ayanda Mabulu then? Just because one is "da.rkie" artist and the other "whi.tey" the treatment should be different, and the consequent ANC/Zuma reaction different??. This involuntary or not, "omission" (c'mon, after all he is a PROFESSOR, is he not?, and I don't think he got his diplomas at Clicks, 'cause you know, you pay less at Clicks) casts suspicion on his fair interpretation of the Murray/peniZuma/ShaggaZulu affair. Either that, or he is too naive (pfft) to not notice the cheap politicking on the ANC to divert the attention of an emotional public and easy mass to incite to violence as Mantashe is trumpeting, from the ANC ineptitude and corruption represented by Zuma and the elite of ANC Illuminati....
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 358 days ago
I am really tired of the race card being brought out in order to stop debate. You have not managed to convince me that this has ANYTHING to do with race. Your idea that only black people have male sex organs doesn't hold water and neither does your stance whereby anything a white person does is automatically racist.