Sandile Zungu: 'Blame the ANC, not the president'

Calls for President Jacob Zuma to go are populist grandstanding, says Black Business Council deputy president Sandile Zungu, and don't address the fundamental problem: a weak ruling party and flawed leadership election process.

The council met Zuma last week and distanced itself from a call by AngloGold Ashanti chairman Sipho Pityana for the ANC to recall him.

Unless he is recalled, says Pityana, South Africa can count on a ratings downgrade to junk status.

Zungu, 49 and de facto leader of the BBC and its most eloquent spokesman, bankrolled Zuma's bid for the presidency and remains close to him.

He has a BSc degree in mechanical engineering and an MBA from the University of Cape Town, and is the founder-chairman of a successful BEE investment company.

Zungu believes that a downgrade to junk status is "imminent" and says the consequences for everyone, not least the businesses represented by the council, cannot be overstated.

"They will be dire," he says.

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He agrees with Pityana that everything possible must be done to avert a downgrade, but for the business council, this does not include getting rid of South Africa's president.

"Zuma's removal will only create an atmosphere of political instability or the perception that we are in a low-scale civil war," he says. This would put the likelihood of a downgrade beyond any doubt.

"The ratings agencies look at political uncertainty."

He does not agree with the view that the president himself is responsible for political uncertainty which will only increase as long as he stays.

He blames the ruling party rather than Zuma for this.

"The ANC needs to look at itself in the mirror and say, have they provided sufficient leadership? They positioned themselves as the leader of society. Have they performed the role they ought to have to inspire confidence?"

Shouldn't the buck stop with the president?

"The ANC has been entrusted with the mandate to lead this country. It needs to ask itself if it has done so. I think it is operating sub-optimally. There is no question about it."

The business council had a four-hour meeting with the ANC leadership before the municipal elections "in which we made very pointed remarks about what the ANC should be doing to inspire confidence", he says.

"It should foster greater cohesion in the government and inspire a greater sense of duty and responsibility among the executive."

Including the president?

"Of course."

So should it take the president in hand?

"It is very populist to hurl profanities at the president - for which you'll get some applause. The question is, will you be effective?

"We need to identify the effective pressure points that can inspire effective change.

block_quotes_start To do things which may excite us in the short term but deliver a telling blow to the ANC in the long term ... we don't want to repeat that mistake block_quotes_end

"Go to the ANC, because it is the ANC that has suggested to parliament, this is the leader, this is the person we are presenting to the voters as the president.

"It is the ANC, by the right entrusted to them in the constitution as the ruling party, who can recall their deployees in government. Including the president."

He says real power resides in Luthuli House - not the president's office in the Union Buildings.

"If we have concerns about the president let us direct them to where the power lies, which is the ANC."

The BBC has done this, he says.

"We have been to the ANC to complain about how we think the executive is operating sub-optimally."

It has not complained specifically about Zuma, however.

"Our specific concern about the executive is that one minister is saying one thing, the other is saying another thing. And the impression created is that they are not singing from the same hymn book."

The result is policy uncertainty, he says, citing confusion about renewable energy as an example.

"The energy minister, who is responsible for policy, says the IPPs (independent power producers) are an integral part of our energy mix. On the other hand you hear the head of Eskom saying another thing. It creates policy uncertainty."

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Zungu says the recall of former president Thabo Mbeki was a "terrible mistake which served South Africa badly and did not serve the ANC well".

Recalling Zuma would split the ANC.

"To do things which may excite us in the short term but deliver a telling blow to the ANC in the long term ... we don't want to repeat that mistake."

Zungu agrees with Pityana's view that the ANC is heading for disaster.

"The trends are there for everyone to see."

The party needs as a matter of urgency to convene a consultative conference and examine the way it chooses its leaders.

If it goes into its elective conference next year under the existing rules, "I can tell you the ANC will break up".

It also needs to improve the quality and mix of its national executive committee "so that skilled people who know how to create wealth are included", he says.

"At the moment the ANC has got a lot of social scientists who know how to transform society, but who do not know how to create wealth.

"How can the ANC execute a mandate to grow the economy and inspire business confidence when people at the helm of the organisation don't have the skills and capabilities?"

It is also imperative for the ANC to "instruct" those in government to work together with, rather than against, each other, and to be more disciplined.

"One of the reasons for the erosion of confidence of the people in the ANC is a lack of discipline, which also manifests itself in the executive of the country - meaning the way members of the cabinet conduct themselves."

He cites Mineral Resources Minister Mosebenzi Zwane's recent statement that the cabinet had decided to ask Zuma for an inquiry into the banks as an example.

"There is no question that this was frowned upon by a lot of people," says Zungu.

Should he have been fired?

"That is the prerogative of the president."

Is it an example of his weak leadership that he has allowed this kind of indiscipline in the government?

block_quotes_start The BBC supports the minister of finance 100% in his efforts to stabilise the economy and avert a downgrade, even if we are skating on thin ice with regards to this block_quotes_end

"I wouldn't reduce it to that."

However, the executive of the country and the ANC is "operating at a level below that which we expect of it. The same goes for the boards of state-owned agencies."

Who is to blame for this if not the president?

"I think the ANC is the one that must first and foremost frankly confront these issues."

It failed to do so at its post- election lekgotla, he says.

"I am not sure their analysis of this was beyond reproach - whether they analysed the situation correctly. If they did they need to start taking action to reverse the erosion."

Zungu says the BBC supports Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan "100%".

So why didn't it support his attempts to get rid of SAA chairwoman Dudu Myeni?

"He has just reappointed her as chairman," he says.

Does he not know that Gordhan did not submit her name on his list of preferred candidates?

"I did not know that."

Is it not disingenuous for the BBC to claim to support Gordhan "100%" when it doesn't back him on such a critical issue?

"I can say it categorically. The BBC supports the minister of finance 100% in his efforts to stabilise the economy and avert a downgrade, even if we are skating on thin ice with regards to this."

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In spite of the potentially disastrous consequences for the country of Gordhan's harassment by the Hawks, the council did not raise this issue when it met the president last week.

"Our agenda was not about the finance minister and the Hawks," says Zungu.

So the council raised issues it felt affected black business, but ignored the one issue that would affect black business more immediately and disastrously than anything else - the arrest of Gordhan?

"Let me say again, we support him 100%. God forbid the Hawks arrest the finance minister."

Shouldn't the council have raised this with Zuma?

"I can say with hand on heart that I do not think the president is involved in this. I know him very well and if there is one thing the president will not do it is to set the Hawks on a member of his executive," he says.

"I would be very disappointed if President Zuma is fingered as being an actor in all of this."

Given how high the stakes are, shouldn't the BBC have told Zuma to exercise proper leadership and rein the Hawks in before they destroy the economy?

"No one is above the law," says Zungu.

Including the president?

"Including the minister of finance."