SA 'regrets' Libya's UN vote
Image by: AFP
South Africa's top diplomat has admitted SA voted in favour of a UN resolution authorising a no-fly zone in Libya without understanding how it would be enforced.
Foreign Affairs director-general Jerry Matjila told MPs during a briefing on international matters yesterday that South Africa was in the dark about the intensity of the bombardment that would be required to enforce a no-fly zone.
"I don't think we explored thoroughly the modalities of the how, [such as] how do you ensure no-fly zones?
"All of us were moved by the carnage we saw in Libya. We were moved by the extent of destruction of civilian life and I think truly to the [African Union] and South Africa, and correctly so, we thought now we must protect ordinary people.
"But the modalities were left, I think, unresolved conclusively and those who have the means then developed their own means to enforce the 1973 resolution," said Matjila.
UN Resolution 1973 was passed by the world governing body's Security Council shortly after Muammar Gaddafi ordered ground and air strikes to quell a popular uprising in the country he has ruled for 42 years.
The bombing campaign has since intensified, with Nato - in charge of the operation - shelling Gaddafi's compound and other targets in the capital Tripoli, which they consider to be military targets.
One of Gaddafi's sons was killed during Nato's bombing of a compound.
South Africa and other African countries have since cried foul over the Nato operation, arguing that bombing Gaddafi's compound amounted to a regime change.
Matjila said there were not enough discussions at the UN Security Council about how the resolution would actually be enforced.
He said, however, that the government and the AU would oppose any plans to send in ground troops into Libya.
Matjila added that South Africa had stopped all arms sales to Libya and had issued restrictive permits to several countries that might ship South African made weapons to Libya.
South African-made sniper rifles and ammunition recently found their way to Gaddafi's troops in contravention of an arms embargo.
Meanwhile Matjila confirmed that Swaziland, which is facing a crippling cash crunch, was seeking a substantial loan from South Africa.
Although he wouldn't confirm the figure, reports last week indicated it had asked for R10-billion.
About R2-billion would be used to pay Swaziland's domestic debt, R1.7-billion towards agriculture and R1-billion to boost the local currency elangeni, which is pegged to the rand, according to reports.

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SA 'regrets' Libya's UN vote
For Commenters Consideration | Please stick to the subject matterCOMMENTS [60]
LehlohonoloGumede
Posted 338 days agoAbdulhalli_Shittu
stonearch
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Lol so what's new? Just look at the state of the country, and you will realize that these incompetents don't understand 99% of the things they get involved with, or have so much to say about. At least here is one guy who has the guts to admit it. Typical Dunning-Kruger effect...
LMFAO!
EliJikelele
Maxi
To be honest with you, the state of the nation is far much better than before 1994. Everyone is aware unless they are ignorant. So don't bring this nuisance in this debate.
stonearch
"So don't bring this nuisance in this debate."
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Lol - firstly find out what "nuisance" means!
Secondly only a delusional being would believe your statement that "everybody knows"! All I know is that the country is a cesspool of corruption from the top "leadership" down to you prostrating minions. The army is a mess. Health care is a mess. Violent crime has escalated to by far the highest in the world. We have the highest incidence of rape in the world. (By miles). Local government has broken down to the level that sewerage is running in the streets. Water supplies are completely polluted. Our power grid is in shambles. Our lack of electricity will force our growth rate further onto it's knees and cost the economy billions if not trillions in lost production over the next few years. Our judiciary is a laughing stock. Our police/law enforcement is another cesspool of corruption, thuggery and probably one of the worst and most inefficient in the world. More than 80% of murders go unsolved. Our productivity is amongst the lowest on earth. Our maths and science results are the lowest out of the 50 countries measured. More than half of our professionals have left the country. Our tax rates are growing to be amongst the highest on earth with virtually no returns for taxpayers. None of our University qualifications are acknowledged internationally because of the drops in standards. Our roads maintenance infrastructure is in shambles, and more than half has disappeared from the maintenance database. I think this probably proves enough for a start lol!
LMFAO. Nice going Maxi - I am sure "everyone" agrees you are doing a fine job lol!
AWA
Posted 338 days agoWhat they do not understand is that with Gaddafi there is no middle road. Otherwise he would have stopped the killing long ago. They are quick to defend their friend Gaddafi when things go wrong for his family but they are also quick to forget they were justified in forming MK and fight the apartheid regime. What is the difference? You deny a people their rights for long enough you are going to get bloodshed.
I expect they now support Syrian president Al-Assad killing his own people so he can hang onto power. They will no doubt vote against any UN resolution condemning the killing of unarmed civilians in Syria and other Arab countries.
Please, wake up and stand up. At least make up your minds which side of the fence you want to be and stop jumping the fence every day.
Schumi
How I wish that we can open our eyes and see the real reasons for these uprising in Nrth Africa and the Arab world. These are all about the oil. The guys in power are not puppets of USA, France and Britain, so these self appointed, so called guardians of democracy want regim changes so that they can have someone who'll glady give them free access to their oil resources.
Who armed these rebels anyway?
If there were uprisings in USA, how would the Obama administration quash them?
AaronGumede
Leretemonnyong
They should have just called all this a No-life Zone instead.
stonearch
The West and UN entered the fray in this case because there was a unanimous call from the Arab League (not the Yoof league) for them to get involved. When the west suggested getting involved in Syria, it was turned down because there was no call from the Arab League. So tough luck, your warped argument attempting to blame the west does not withstand scrutiny...
FerdiMo
AaronGumede
I am not blaming the West but tell you what is their interests in Libya. We all know that they have nothing to gain Syria but much so in Libya. The only reason why there is no poverty and unemployment in Libya is that Britain and France were not effectively exploiting her because Gadhaffi was watching them, otherwise Libya could have been like Nigeria, rich with oil but taken for free to Europe by bribing government official, just like Ivory Coast's cocoa and oil. You don't find Germany in the fray because they are capable of using their resources to survive, just like Japan but France and Britain were and remained parasites who know best how to talk and exploit in Africa and deliver lower than Japan and Germany.
Spook
stonearch
Leretemonnyong
stonearch
bakaebakae
AWA
I also accept that there are different points of view. After all, how are wars started.
I support everyone has the right to express their views, including myself.
Did anyone mention the long history of Gaddafi as what some call a madman?
Not that I always trust the UN, but my view is they were right in this case and I am pleased SA voted in support, even though they have second thoughts now. You cannot live in an "if only" world. We do live in a "next time" world. So next time they vote to help in other Arab countries, they can vote against it and just let the killing go on.
Regarding the oil, yes it is all about oil. That is why these dictators hang onto power in the first place. The dirty game of politics combined selfish and greedy men. At some point there will be an uprising because normal men and women want to be free.
Chirelive
Posted 338 days agoZimasa77
Leretemonnyong
Mzungu
Posted 338 days agoMisterWendal
Posted 338 days agoHeads must roll....
SuiGeneris
DonnieBrasco
Posted 338 days agowhere there is no vision the people perish
Bart365
Posted 338 days agoHe has been supressing his people for 3 decades.... about as bad as MAD BOB!
Leretemonnyong
Maxi
Dr.Zeek
I know you probably think Muammar deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't share your views.
HZK0506
Posted 338 days agoIts really sad that we only realise our error 300 deaths later.
Leretemonnyong
Posted 338 days agoSuiGeneris
They have, but they are too busy 24/7/365 covering up the corruption and incompetance of the government cadres !
EliJikelele
FerdiMo
Posted 338 days agoThe biggest disappointment for me has been the completely impotent role the AU has played in this saga. This was an opportunity for the AU to stand truly united against foreign intervention (especially West intervention) on sovereign African soil. They could have acted hastily and more resolutely in dealing with Gaddaffi's removal from the presidency through diplomacy and thereby validating themselves as an effective and necessary African body and also giving validation to their message of African solutions to African problems.
Leretemonnyong
stonearch
AaronGumede
Dont forget that the people of Libya decided that they want a democratic change and the West semnt a CIA trained terrorist to take advantage of the peaceful protests. He did not want to be part of the peaceful protest because he is unknown in Libya and instead organised a bunch of terrorists and claimed that they are rebels. We only heard of Rebels in Libya now and it is reported that they were not trained and cannot use weapons effectively.The spy is aware that the peaceful marches will not benefit their interests because the new leadership maybe someone who may not be favourable to the West. We can thus deduce that the UN resolution is a conspiracy and coverup for the WEST to attack and Libya and her citizens.The West already agreed with their spy that they will support him militarily, hence the unprovoked sudden bombing of Libya by NATO. They only needed the approval of that useful, lame and mindless bunch of fools called Arab League. They never wanted to listen to AU. Nato never shoot down any Gadaffi fighter jet since from the begining but have been bombing Gadaffi and killed his family. We have seen that spy running up and down in Europe and US.
FerdiMo
Because Libyans were out on the streets in protest against his eternal cling to power. The Libyans should have the mandate to choose their own leader. If that happens to be Gaddafi then so be it but what they are fighting for is that process of choice that you and I enjoy. Any leader that stands against a democratic process must be removed if democratic process is the will of the people. That's just non-negotiable in my book.
@stonearch
I get your point but let's not be naive. Political leaders anywhere in the world have in the past redefined words to get around UN war resolutions, whether is Bush's redefinition of "terror" or even Obama redefining "hostilities" to bypass senate and get the green light for military action against Libya despite it contradicting the U.S War Power Act.
NATO has now created a novel definition of a no-fly zone to enforce what is virtually a War of Aggression on Libya. Make no mistake that the title "no-fly zone" was deliberately intended to mislead and smooth it's passing at the UN. Not understanding it's truest extent was daft given we have intelligence agencies but it's not inconceivable how that happened.
You're also dead wrong in stating that the Arab League is unanimous in their support for the no-fly zone. Most Arab League countries abstained and even after endorsing the no-fly zone they condemned the continued bombardment on targets unrelated to a fly zone. Amr Moussa, the Arab League secretary general has spoken out strongly against NATO's execution saying it goes against their aim of simply imposing a no-fly zone and nothing else.
FerdiMo
I'm not sure about the spy conspiracy theory, sounds a little woo-woo to me but it's no secret that NATO is supporting rebel forces and working strategically with them to overthrow Gaddafi.
stonearch
The definition of a NFZ is clear. SA started complaining about bombing before the NFZ was even implemented! But the UN mandate was NOT purely to enforce a NFZ. It was also to take whatever steps deemed necessary to save lives from the dictatorship. Obviously that also requires force, with even more casualties. The point is that the West cannot be expected to pussyfoot around the situation indefinitely, and believe me, they won't. I am sure that they have better beans to fry. If the AU was worth an iota more than a lot of jabbering chimps, the west would not have been called upon to get involved. So in order to complete the mandate I am sure (and they have stated as much) that if they can get a potshot at the "King of Kings" (lmfao) they would do so. Nothing undeclared there either therefore.
As far as the AL is concerned, there were no dissenting votes. The request was put to the west by the AL as a block. This was the first time ever. I am not about to repeat the story all over again...
AaronGumede
Its unfortunate that you never heard of it and very wrong to call names if you don't know them. That is synonimous with Europeans anyway but it is advisable to confirm and dispute things you don't know and not called them names.
FerdiMo
If by "jabbering chimps" you mean a bunch of ineffective clowns that sit around a table resolving nothing - and I really hope you are - then I'm with you whole heartedly on that at least. They should have been ahead of this situation driving it if they were any sort of relevant.
@AaronGumede
I didn't call you or the spy conspiracy names. I stated it sounds a little woo-woo to me, meaning a little crazy and I stand by that. I'd need concrete proof of such an agent to even begin to consider the story's validiy. Harde if you too offence but you understood wrong.
Zodwa3
Posted 338 days agobakaebakae
Posted 338 days agoKoos
Posted 338 days agoCourage
Posted 338 days agoFerdiMo
So it's a tad unfair to say no one else offered any tangible solutions. By the time French apaches dropped the first missiles in Libya everyone was caught unaware. Granted they've had time to reflect and formulate a practical solution now but even if a plan was in place, how do they engage Gaddafi while he's too busy ducking bombs? The AU should do the opposite of silence. They should rage and impose their own solution.
AaronGumede
Posted 338 days agoCourage
And the protests began peacefully in Libya - its only when their self-proclaimed dictator started getting a little worried and started shooting did any violence begin.
AaronGumede
Lona, you just believe what you are told and it depend who told you what you know, the US did not dispute that report but instead commended the Mid-East and Africa analyst for been honest in the interview and he raised the spy issue in the interview. Like I said, it become BS if you don't know it hence the Victoria Falls and Kaff+ir Boom. Things must be the way you know want them, names, history etc, but at the end you messed up many important things which could stengthen diversity and increase knowledge which could help us be better species.
Zimasa77
Posted 338 days agoNothing for MAHALA.
Geist
Posted 338 days agoI hope they roast and toast him and Mugape.
augustrain
Posted 337 days agoVérité
Posted 337 days agoSome of the many things you share:
Corruption
Dictatorship
Dislike of Freedom of Speech
Dislike of Media
Power hunger
Good Window Dressing
No respect for citizens who don't share your common belief
Selfish
AfricaRevolt2011
Posted 337 days agocorrespondent
Posted 336 days ago