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Wed Jun 19 18:18:05 SAST 2013

Zuma to hit taxpayers with R517m upkeep bill

TJ STRYDOM | 21 August, 2012 00:52
President Jacob Zuma. File photo.
Image by: Moeletsi Mabe

President Jacob Zuma is, not surprisingly, the highest- paid official in the government, costing taxpayers R200 a minute, according to a report released yesterday .

And, adds, the report, the cost of protecting and transporting Zuma, in addition to paying his salary, perks and various household expenses, will add up to R517 -million once his five-year term as South Africa's president is complete.

The cost of Zuma to the country was revealed in a report by senior DA analyst Gareth van Onselen.

Van Onselen used the Ministerial Handbook and other sources to arrive at his estimates.

Though Zuma's salary is known, many of his other costs have not been confirmed.

Van Onselen said he erred on the side of caution before arriving at the figure of over R103-million a year for Zuma's upkeep.

"Most likely, the final and ultimately unknowable total will be far, far higher," he said, adding that his estimates do not include the cost of poor decisions or action perpetually delayed.

Zuma is, in a sense, not as expensive as US president Barack Obama, who is estimated to cost his taxpayers about $1.5-billion (about R12.5-billion) a year.

However, that figure for Obama includes White House operation costs and a massive staff necessary for official business.

"Essentially I have focused on the president's running costs," said Van Onselen, noting that he did not include the official costs of The Presidency.

Russia's president ( Dmitri Medvedev at the time of the research) cost $258-million and France's president (then Nicolas Sarkozy) $161-million, according to the Korrespondent, a Ukrainian magazine, last year.

Though these price tags are higher than Zuma's, they include far more than just living costs.

And, given the global financial crisis, there are indications that many of Zuma's counterparts have started cutting back.

The president of France, Francois Hollande, has lowered his salary by 30%.

According to the website www.therichest.org, Zuma was the 11th best-paid head of state last year. His French counterpart was number five.

"Zuma's flights and the Spousal Support Unit are both excessive and difficult to justify," said Van Onselen. "David Cameron flies British Airways.

"President Zuma can also use a national carrier, if not for all flights, then for the majority. It is reasonable for the public to support a first lady [but] unreasonable to support more than one."

Zuma's expense account is almost 40 times his annual salary.

A separate report revealed yesterday that public sector employees are only about a fifth as productive as those in the private sector.

But, according to Prophet Analytics' quarterly Labour Market Navigator, even the private sector performs badly by international standards, with only 65 JSE-listed companies achieving labour productivity that exceeds employee costs.

ZUMA'S ANNUAL BALANCE SHEET

  • Annual Salary: R2275802 to R2753 689
  • Medical aid: At least R1.3-million
  • Pension payout on retirement: About R2 753 689
  • Spousal support: At least R15 517 500 a year
  • Private vehicle: calculated at 70% of salary - R1 835 792, for two vehicles
  • Flights - VIP Squadron: An approximate average of: R46838476
  • Flights - additional: R6 331 175 plus additional cost of two planes
  • Flights - VIP Protection Services: Unknown
  • Flights - helicopters: At least R14.4-million
  • Overseas allowances - president: An average of R25 400 a year
  • Overseas allowances - first ladies: Unknown
  • Accommodation - hotels: An average of R420000 a year
  • Accommodation - official Residences: An average of R5.3-million a year
  • Accommodation - private residences: R6.4-million
  • VIP protection - An average of at least R12-million a year
  • Legal costs: Unknown
  • Average annual total: R103 544 233
  • Approximate five-year total: R517 721 164

R200 A MINUTE ADDS UP

  
Five yearsR517721164
One yearR103554233
One monthR8 626 686
One weekR1 991 235
One dayR284 462
One hourR11 852
One minuteR198

SHARE YOUR OPINION

If you have an opinion you would like to share on this article, please send us an e-mail to the Times LIVE iLIVE team. In the mean time, click here to view the Times LIVE iLIVE section.

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
Personally, I feel that the country should only be obligated to pay for ONE first lady, not an entire harem. However, if the president really finds it so difficult to be satisfied with only one or two women then perhaps he should pay for all the extras from his own pocket. Otherwise, I find this whole scenario comparable to the useless kings and queens the taxpayer has to continually fund.
Avatar

SindiM

Posted 302 days ago
We all share your personal view, obviously except those who support his lifestyle.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
The issue of Zuma's wives is a non-starter. Our constitution provides for polygammy, and JZ in not in transgression of any constitutional provision in marrying more than one wives. It is his call to make, just like many people decide to marry one wife. Who said monogammy is morally superior to polygammy. We are not all christians or subscribers to western sexual prescriptions.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Whytefull

I agree with u 101% frankly i don't know what the running of mouth is all about. Being the head of state comes with its benefits just like every job in the world.
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
SindiM,

I wish I could choose not to but unfortunately we'll probably just be increasing the "living" wage for presidential wives come the next few years.


Whyetfull,

You should take the time to actually read a comment before climbing onto your soap box and wasting my time by forcing an unnecessary explanation. I don't see where I said polygamy isn't protected by the constitution or any of that other bull you're muttering about. The only fact that I commented on is how ridiculous it is that the average taxpayer has to foot the bill for millions worth of several "first" ladies. So yes, arguing against polygamy is a "non-starter" since that's not even the topic at hand.
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn,

It is my opinion that the president has plenty of benefits as is without the public paying for every other wife he decides to take on. If having an opinion on such an issue is "running of mouth" then pot has some news for you kettle.
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn,

It's not hostility so much as frustration at having to explain the obvious. For example, I never once said that the president can't have more than one wife, just that I believed he should pay for all the others minus the first. This point is crystal clear in my posts and yet for some reason I have to say it... again.

As a side-note, there are plenty of whites which practice polygamy, there are even cultures and religions dominated by whites which support it.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Scribbles

As long as the constitution allows for it why not?
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn,

Because it's a complete waste of money. We're losing crucial funding in areas such as education, medicine, etc, to pay for these wives. If he married them then surely he has the means to pay for them besides dipping into the public's purse. If not then he's just an idiot or a presidential mooch.
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn,

As an addition, simply because something is legal doesn't mean that government officials can go crazy wasting money on useless perks, such as TVs in their cars and other such nonsense.
Avatar

SuiGeneris

Posted 302 days ago
@ makoya1zn

Definition of ''honourable''

Worthy of being honored; Entitled to honor and respect; Honorable service to his country; Adhering to ethical and moral principles.

Do you recognize your ''honourable president'' anywhere in this definition ???
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Scribbles

It's funny cause there is a budget that ia allocated to Education & other departments on an annual basis. So the Zuma's wives are the reason the Education department is under funded according to you? Mbeki had one wife & we still had problems with Education funding, I guess u gonna blame him(Mbeki) for having a wife.

He is dipping in a public's purse because constitutionally he can.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ SuiGeneris


Do you recognize your ''honourable president'' anywhere in this definition ???
..............................................................................................................

I see it everywhere in your definition. Answered?
Avatar

SuiGeneris

Posted 302 days ago
@ makoya1zn

Answered.....In other words, you as a person are looking up to your president, which means that your moral and ethical standards are even lower than his !
Avatar

staren

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn, I guessed you missed the "ethical and moral principles" part...
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Scribbles & Staren

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Makoya1zn,

Oh, so you believe that budgets are created without accounting for reserves, operatings costs, etc, and that any increases make no discernable dent to the public purse? Let me guess, you also believe that pixies simply pick from magical money trees and gaily toss all funds into the needed departments while riding past on their rainbow coloured unicorns.

I'll be blunt, we don't have an endless vault of money and the budget isn't something that is written in stone. The fact that the president has easily gone over budget is testament to this. And yet when crucial departments require such measures it takes several months of debate before any funds are moved.

This conversation is over, you're wasting my time with your delusions. And by the by, Mbeki's one wife cost us a lot less, even compared to only one of Zuma's wives.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Scribbles

Its the same tendencies that imperialists/capitalists like yourself that we will never agree to disagree coz as soon as person does not agree with u you tend to go pink in the face & not listen to what they are saying.

Anyways whether u agree or disagree with me i do not give a damn.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
@scribbles,

There must be something wrong with your reasoning. You make so many wild claims and you seem not to have the wit to see how your claims relate to one another. You say you 'feel' that the country should only be obligated to pay for ONE first lady. Oh well, that is just your feeling. We do not run a country by feelings, but legal prescripts. Fault JZ on what he violates constitutionally and not by your 'feelings'. Imagine what kind of a country we would have if we were to run it by feelings. What you fail to understand is that your feelings are premised on what you take for granted and consider 'normal'. Why should your norm be treated as a standard?? and imposed on everybody?? That is the problem with you people. You have internalised your own values so much such that your are oblivious of other people's value systems. Until such a time the constitution says polygamous men are not allowed to stand for presidential election, your argument remains invalid.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
@scribbles,

Get over you mule. The office of the president just like any other government office is taken care of through the public purse. It is part of the whole budgetory allocations. It is not your call to say take money from presidential allocation and give it to education. I can bet you have not changed your life tastes on the ground sthat there are people/ programmes 'out there' which may be under-budgetted. Why should the president of any government official change their values simply because your narrow mind find them repulsive?? Remember, JZ does not presdie over SA on the grounds of your mandate, but rather, the mandate of the majority of people who endorsed the ANC. Even if you voted ANC, democracy still requires you to respect majority decisions, and the fact that there are people who do no see life the way you do.
Avatar

Bono

Posted 302 days ago
Scribbles decided to throw in the towel as it is pointless debating or arguing with idiots as they WILL beat you with experience!!!!
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Bono

Typical when someone does not agree with u all u do is turn pink in the face & throw insults.
The whole lot of u are the same.
Such a shame
Avatar

Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
Whyetfull,

I made no "wild" claims. I had an opinion and you just told me that I can't have one, since the president can do what he likes as long as it's within the law. I wasn't arguing that my opinion trumps the law but you effectively twisted it to sound as such in an effort, I guess, to protect your president's right to splurge. I feel that as citizens it is our right to comment and suggest to our fellow citizens in an open forum our thoughts while you feel the president should do as he pleases (as long as it's within the law) and that only those which agree with him should speak. Honestly, there's no arguing with such a stance. And proclaiming that since I won't change my budget, the president doesn't have to, is ridiculous since I didn't VOLUNTEER to be a public SERVANT.

Whytefull said, "Until such a time the constitution says polygamous men are not allowed to stand for presidential election, your argument remains invalid."

I disagree since I never said that polygamist politicians cannot run, I simply suggested an alternate funding solution. This is the fourth time I think I've repeated this line so clearly this is a practice in futility. That said, like Makoya1zn I'll leave you to your rambling.

PS, Denouncing insults while insulting me in the same sentence is extremely hypocritical.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
"I simply suggested an alternate funding solution"

That is my biggest problem. I do not see why we should look for alternative funding solutions in the presidential office simply because the incumbent is the man whose preferred lifestyle we do not approve. That is expedience, and not principle. The level of cultural intolerance in SA is scarry. People have assumed that it is either their way or no way.

Surely you have the right to express your views whichever way you like. Nobody has teh right to stop you. However, people have the right to respond if they feel that the comments you are making are unfair and prejudicial.
Avatar

buddi

Posted 302 days ago
After reading all your posts, you have all missed one thing - most presidents work for their money. I can't see our president doing much except travelling, and reading speeches.
Avatar

ChickenRunner

Posted 302 days ago
SOUTH AFRICA IS FULL OF DUMB SH!TS FOR SURE!
Avatar

Wiseguy

Posted 302 days ago
hmmmm yes some heated healthy debate going on here!!

My 2 cents worth:
We as a country, regardless of political affliliation all know we have massive tasks ahead of us.......and in order alleviate the massive levels of unemployment, poverty, corruption and mal-administration/mismanagement, health care and education problems....we NEED a president who sets an excellent example in being frugal with tax-payers money, who doesn't waste money from the public purse on ANYTHING and takes a firm MORAL and ETHICAL stand on ANYTHING that might be deemed wasteful expenditure ! The fact that the constitution allows for what might be deemed by some as wasteful or otherwise, doesn't make it correct given the work that lies in front of ALL of us.

So is our current President setting a good example in the face of the reality on the ground?? Not what the consitution allows!!! That is the question that the people of RSA need to answer?
Avatar

BottomPower

Posted 302 days ago
I do not know why my alter ego is blocked,

Anyway, I remain committed to my views and will air them without fear or favour.

@wiseman,
I hear and agree with your point that we need an examplery leadership/ president to be precise. Ceratinly. However, the charges levelled against JZ re: his polygamous lifestyle are unwarranted. Just to make something clear here, tehre is nothing immoral or amoral with polygammy. Morality is much more complex than people think. No religion or culture has monopolly on what constitutes morality. Polygammy is as ethical as monogammy.

Mike123

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
Good thing his wives aren't paid by the kilogram, otherwise spousal support would be about ten times what it currently is.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
It could well be that your's too has excess kgs...People have illusions that their choices are better than other's...
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@Mike

Are u speaking from experience?
Avatar

BAMBINA

Posted 302 days ago
hahahahahaha could not have put it better myself

Francis

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
hahahah Mike, the best!
The maintenance of the criminal will become the bankruptcy of South Africa.
No country can carry the cost what crime causes in South Africa and all this under the guidance and leadership of communists anc with zuma 783 as the master brain.
Brain=sawdust mixed with an invisible KZN muti.

nkosipeter

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
It wouldn't be so bad if he actually DID something.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
What would u like him to do that he hasn't done? cause i can tell u a lot he has done
Avatar

BAMBINA

Posted 302 days ago
@makoyasan

Then why is country in such a bad state of afairs, he is just living up the good life and we are paying for all his fat wives and a 101 kids (sick)
Avatar

buddi

Posted 302 days ago
@makoyasan

Maybe you can name a few, and we can make up our minds if you are right or wrong.

MicaParis

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
''Don’t you know they’re talkin’ ’bout a revolution,
It sounds like a whisper…
While they’re standing in the welfare lines
Crying at the doorsteps of those armies of salvation
Wasting time in the unemployment lines…
Sitting around waiting for a promotion…
Don’t you know they’re talkin’ ’bout a revolution,
It sounds like a whisper…
Poor people gonna rise up
Get their share
Poor people gonna rise up,
Take what’s theirs…''

Tracy Chapman’s iconic 80s song Talkin’ ’bout a Revolution has resonance not only in South Africa but around the world as people increasingly demand freedom – whether during the so-called Arab Spring, the Greeks rising up against austerity measures or in the French choice of social democrat François Hollande.
Since 2009, ''Government'' has arguably fallen into further dysfunction. It is time sufficient political will is summoned to deal firmly with corruption and ''looting'' in the Presidency and Office of the Premiers' in our country.

If we fail to do so, poor people will indeed rise up and “take what’s theirs”, ironically it might be impossible to access the keys to Union Building for the ANC for another 100 years again in contradiction of the 100 years celebration!


Avatar

i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
The ANC already has access to the Public Coffers and wants to empty them before 100 yrs........
Avatar

Francis

Posted 302 days ago
MicaParis,
You are a wise person. Too wise to be connected in any way to these corrupt and dangerous anc criminals or to a capitalist exploitation mentality.
Your vision invites to believe in a social democracy. I hope you will have many followers to make this world better as time is running out.
Avatar

QPCLCD308

Posted 302 days ago
''If we fail to do so, poor people will indeed rise up and “take what’s theirs”, ironically it might be impossible to access the keys to Union Building for the ANC for another 100 years again in contradiction of the 100 years celebration!''
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I really LIKE that statement Mica, a clear warning to your fat ANC cats! But however is a wish that I love to be a reality as we are tired of being led by inexperienced prisoners and exileists who does not have a clue what leadership and administration are!!.

As a DA high profile member (I mean very high profile) I feel very unhappy and shaky in my chair if ANC possesses such kind of grievous and very harmful talent which their intelligence can single handedly lead DA into political wilderness. Mica's ideas are not ANC based but are relevant to the true unity that this country is dreaming and in need of!
If ANC can be led by people like Mica, than Zuma is not lying if he is saying ANC will rule until Jesus comes back, Mica is a very dangerous hot property that I would love to steal over to the DA, she is a top notch head honcho that any political party can think of, it is very difficult to find a comrade who can easily lure and win over the interest of the opposite enemy, Mica has got clearly that skill and talent which is a powerhouse in any political platform.
Avatar

l984

Posted 302 days ago
@ QPCLCD308

Are you by any chance a troll? You have been posting the same stuff for the past few weeks ad nauseaum. Funniest part is your idol Mica Paris has not even honoured you with a reply yet!

thaboramokgopa

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
i dont know what we did to deserve this criminal, my heart sanks at the sight if his picture. To see him splashing like cazy ..especially upkeep costs for his entire harem depresses me no end!
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
Let me tell u what we did to deserve him. We successfully got rid of apartheid regime, people like him(Zuma) sacrificed their lives so that we can live in a democratic country. He(Zuma) headed the ANC intelligence underground during apartheid. They also gave u the freedom of expression that u are using now.

What else do u want to know?
Avatar

Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
@Makoya1zn - I note you don't mention "because he was the best man for the job given his leadership credentials". What you have described is entitlement.

(I think I reported your comment as 'abusive' in error. Apologies)
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Thuka-Thuka

All i can say is Zuma did not put himself in this position but was voted by 11 million + people.

That does no sound like entitlement to me but then again what do i know i'm just as immoral & corrupt as Zuma as u people best describe him.
Avatar

i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
WRONG!!!!!!!!................Zuma was NOT elected by us!!!!.......He was CHOSEN by a party and IMPOSED TO US!!!!....that is the BIIIIGG difference....

And now is when we are certain he would have never been elected as he can not be a leader!!!!!... The man does not seem to have the ability to think beyond his zipper...............
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
WRONG!!!!!!!!................Zuma was NOT elected by us!!!!.......He was CHOSEN by a party and IMPOSED TO US!!!!....that is the BIIIIGG difference....

And now is when we are certain he would have never been elected as he can not be a leader!!!!!... The man does not seem to have the ability to think beyond his zipper...............

@ i_stur_born

I did not say we elected him, I said voted that is a BIIIGG difference(sounds familar??). He was elected by a delegation which represented the voice of the branches & its members(who are ordinary SA citizen).

To say that he(Zuma) can't think beyond his zipper well that is your opinion & shall treat it as such.
Avatar

Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
11+million people voted for the ANC. Zuma just happened to be in charge of the train set at the time. You are most certainly correct - that is a BIIIGG difference!
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ thuka-Thuka

11+million people voted for the ANC. Zuma just happened to be in charge of the train set at the time. You are most certainly correct - that is a BIIIGG difference!

how do i make this clear to you? Zuma was voted into ANC power by the branches which consists of ANC citizens who in turn voted him also in the national election.

So in all essence Zuma was voted by people of SA into the presidential post. Got it?
Avatar

Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
Nope. I don't recall having any say in the matter. So it's a bit of a leap to claim that the people of SA put him there. C'mon, you can do better than that!
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Thuka-Thuka

Are u from Limpopo by any chance? Because that will explain your reasoning.

In a democratic SA the majority rules whether u had a say or not, we(myself included) elected & voted Msholozi, Nxamalala into power, the sooner u accept that the better.

There is this english saying it goes something like this : IF U CAN"T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM. Msholozi 4 2nd term.
Avatar

Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
Oh dear. It's impossible to rationalise with irrational people.
Avatar

buddi

Posted 302 days ago
@makoyasan

Funny how the people that put him into power, are now so desperate to get rid of him. 'Kill for Zuma' ring a bell?

i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
Some people wrote before that Mr Zuma is an astute and cunning strategist.....How exactly he got that fame is almost impossible to figure out...

In the middle of a crisis for money unavailable for the needs of the country, this guy keeps on raising his salary, building his Castle of Zumanstein in Zuma-la-la-land, which we would not be surprised if it includes a private Boeing 777 runway à-la John Travolta..........

And yet poor Mr Gordhan preaching fiscal discipline to the sand in the desert................HA HA HA HA HA HA..........

Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
Lets be honest, how useful is this information? We know it costs a fortune, but does this help in any way? I would've thought the DA had better things to do... Plus, where does it end? So he has way too many wives that we all pay for, which I don't think we should. But what about someone else with 1 wife and 10 kids. Do we not pay for that?

(I'm well aware he has loads of children so this argument also applies to Zuma)

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
Avatar
The criticism on zuma's preferred lifestyle especially with regard to the numebr of wives that he chose to marry, is extremely unfair. It actually borders on an unexplained cultural arrogance. 'Unexplained' in so far as no one has come up with any persuasive argument to support the assumption that monogammy is the way to go, and therefore should be imposed on everyone, across cultures. My thinking is, if the consitution provides for it, then the public must pay for it. So even if he marries again, I will still see nothing wrong with that. It would just be one of those choices that people make in their lifetime.
Avatar

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
You are right. It is his choice and the choice of the women who marry him. It isn't, however, my choice or the choice of millions of others in this country. So why are we being penalised for it?

Contrary to what you say, polygamy isn't that widely accepted or promoted within the 'culture'. Unfortunately the 'it is my culture' has been so badly abused that it no longer even makes a dent. Blaming your 'culture' on boinking your friend's daughters or building bunkers doesn't really do the 'culture' much good.
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ MommaCyndi
Boinking your friends daughters??

ha...ha...ha...Wow u sound like that idiot Julius Malema(no pun intended).
Avatar

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
Did he or did he not claim that his extra marital affairs with the daughters of his friends were part of his "culture'?
Avatar

SuiGeneris

Posted 302 days ago
@ mmkoya1zn

Not so long ago zuma and malema were birds of a feather.....so you must agree on the idiot aspect !
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Cyndi a woman is a woman whether a daughter of my friend or a sister of my friend. If i like/love her why not??
Avatar

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
EEEEEWWWWW.
Glad you ain't my 'uncle'
Avatar

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@Cyndi

I think u are blinded by your hatred of the president. We have 9 provinces then we have 9 premiers who employ their own people in different departments(education in this instance). Why would we have premiers then if the president can run everything.

Yes the bus stops with him but how the money is managed i mean come on that is not his job otherwise we will only need the president to run the country & fire everybody else
Avatar

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
Yes, the 'buck stops with him'. THAT is the whole point. He is the PRESIDENT of the country and it is his job to make sure that those under his command do a good job. Would you say that they are?
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
"You are right. It is his choice and the choice of the women who marry him. It isn't, however, my choice or the choice of millions of others in this country"

@RSA, are you aware you cannot provide any proof of the wild claim you make above?

How do you know that 'millions' of south africans are opposed toJZ's marital preferences? The fact that your constituency (small) is not happy does not mean that majority of people are not happy. Why should your numbers count for more?? This kind of logic is sickening and I repeat, it borders of cultural arraogance and insignification of the other. I challenge you to undertake a national survey on the assertion that you make, and you will realise that you are just speaking for a few 'millions'. Remember, SA is made of 52 millions, so 2 or 3 million is still very small relatively speaking.
Avatar

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
So you are saying that the vast majority of marriages in SA are polygamist? I think you may have more than a little trouble trying to make that one stick.
Avatar

Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
"Blaming your 'culture' on boinking your friend's daughters or building bunkers doesn't really do the 'culture' much good".
Again, you are conflating the issues. The issue is poligammy and its permissibility in terms of the constitution and our collective psyche as a people. We are not 'blaming' culture on JZ preference for more than one wife. There is nothing to blame here. What we are doing is providing an 'explanation', that as an incumbent to the office of the presidency, JZ is entitled to all the benefits that goe with the office. If the office provides that the wife of the president is entitled to certain benefits, whoever the president comes up with and qualifies as a 'wife' in this instance, is entitled to those benefits.

The problem with our political infrastructure is that it has taken for granted the western cultural preferences - and assumed that whoever comes into those offices, will succumb to these preferences. I am no JZ fan, but what I like about him is that through his foregrounding of polygammy, he has challnged the western establishment, and exposed it for what it is. The thing is tehre is nothing 'natural' or superior about monogammy, it is just a choice amongst many, and JZ chose differently. Such are the pleasentaries of democracy.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
So if my 'culture' says that I should have 15 children but not have the means to support them then it over-rides your 'culture' which says that people should be responsible?
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Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
You are creating artificial binaries. I know of no culture that dictates that people should have 15 children. Even if there was such a culture, I do not see how that is juxtaposed from the descriptor 'responsible'. That is the point I raised earlier, for you is either '15 children' or 'responsible'. You cannot think of a context where a person has '15 children' and be 'responsible' at the same time. I am just flowing with your logic, and not at all advocating for one to have 15 or 70 children. I find your logic extremely flawed, and I sense it is informed by your assumption that your value tastes are 'the truth, the way and the life'. What a shame!
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
You only see my logic as flawed due to the fact that you don't want to believe that individual have responsibilities and that their actions have ramifications. Zuma can have 32 wives for all I care. That is between him and the wives. I don't, however, see why I should have to be affected by it. It is a personal choice and, as such, his personal responsibility.

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
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.... but there is 'no money' for school books in Limpopo and 'no money' to repair the medical equipment in Gauteng and 'no money' to employ doctors in E Cape and 'no money' to build water purification plants and 'no money' to build roads.

Strange how the money never seems to 'run out' before they take the cream off the top.
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
Limpopo text book crisis - The education department of Limpopo was given money just like the rest of other 8 provinces & decided to waste it trying to sabotage/discredit the President. Whose fault is that? The President?

The same thing applies to Gauteng & E cape
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
Agreed, but you could make that argument about a lot of things - this is a very good one admittedly, but what about govt buying private jets? Ministers and their 2 cars (of ridiculous cost)? Having 2 parliaments? Employing a senior govt official, who then hires a consultant to do the work. Etc, etc, etc....
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
You aren't too ofay with the concept of accountability, are you?
Who is the boss of those people?

LindaZungu2

Posted 302 days ago
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Until the DA tells us how much did the apartheid gov spend on their president they must shut up and find something to do. its looks like they are bored
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South_One

Posted 302 days ago
Who cares what was being spent 20 years ago. We are concerned for today's problems and the president is wasting money. Or is this the new ANC's pledge to voters: "We're not very good but at least we are not as bad as Apartheid"
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
If we liked the way the apartheid government did things, why did we get rid of the sods?
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cANCerSurvivor

Posted 302 days ago
ZZZZZZzzzzzzz..... *snore

Telling us how much you and your family spent on laundry detergent in May would be more relevant...

nnKhula

Posted 302 days ago
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So what, He's the President & shuold be paid even more. All the negative comments here are based on personal emotional feelings about the man not facts, infact this article is biased why not compare him to Lee Hsien Loong he's the highest paid prime minsiter in the world. The man is doing a good Job as a president.
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
Hahahaha. You want to compare a Singapore politician to a South African one? Oh brilliant. That is the funniest thing I have read this year.....
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nnKhula

Posted 302 days ago
So it's better to compare him to US, what's the Difference?
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
I'm not the one making the comparisons. It is for us to assess whether half a billion rand is money well spent, when you consider how that money could've been put to better use (not all of it, as the President is not for free) for the benefit of the people who need it most. I couldn't care less how much Obama costs or Lee for that matter, as it doesn't come out of my pocket.... My issue with this is there is nothing we can do about it. And it's not just Zuma - everyone is laughing at us while they milk the cow dry.

mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
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My comment was deleted mybe by DA member or anyone who doesn't like the truth. It's well know thing that the current DA was part of partheid regime as opposion that is the fact not hearsay.
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South_One

Posted 302 days ago
What's your point? The DA (then PFP) opposed apartheid just like the UDF and the ANC. To say it was part of the apartheid regime is wrong; it would be similar as saying the DA is part of the curent ANC regime.

During CODESA representatives debated fo equal rights. They won and a great deal of the Constitution is PFP, DP, DA liberal thought.
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago


So i guess the NP(which dominates DA posts currently) were also opposed to apartheid regime?

The NP left the Democratic Alliance years ago. The then head of the NP, Marthinus van Schalkwyk, is now our minister of tourism, -ED

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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
I think you'll find that the Nats joined up with the ANC. Little kortbroek is there to prove it....
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South_One

Posted 302 days ago
@makoya1zn

Top Federal Positions of the DA and what they were doing during the struggle:
Leader - Helen Zille, Black Sash and Liberal Journalist
Federal Chairperson - Wilmot James, UDF and academic
Federal Executive Chairperson - James Selfe, PFP
Leader in Parliament - Lindiwe Mazibuko, wasn't even a teenager.

staren

Posted 302 days ago
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What difference does it make what the apartheid govt spent on their presidents?? They were a corrupt institution and everyone knows that... why does everyone think that because the Nats were corrupt, it somehow excuses the questionable behavior of the ANC? This isnt a tit-for-tat about who was worse - this is about accountability within the present regime.
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
Accountability on what?
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Thuka-Thuka

Posted 302 days ago
@mbongwamugabe. And that perhaps is the problem.....
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
Re quote:.........The concepts of Morality, Accountability, Responsibility are flexible and can be contradictory according to the ANC Mafiosi and ANC moronic supporters.
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
anyone who is not happy in my country is free to immigrate to where ever they wish. please stop whinging and do something if you do have the ability.
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staren

Posted 302 days ago
@mbongwamugabe

Well, where and how would you like us to start making a change - perhaps by possibly voicing our objections? Thats usually where social change begins...

The definition of apathy is sitting quietly, doing nothing and accepting things for what they are, not so?
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
"""""""anyone who is not happy in my country is free to immigrate to where ever they wish. please stop whinging and do something if you do have the ability."""""".......

........born to be rock-driller............
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staren

Posted 302 days ago
So how exactly would you like us to be pro active in terms of political change? By voting for someone other than the ANC perhaps?

Love the irony, the same folk who continually insist on voting/keeping the ANC in power are the same ones that then cry about the inequalities and injustices in our country... and then turn around and tell us to be pro active or leave... rich, very rich.
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
staren

I mean pro-active, not blaming others while you do nothing to change the situation. The answer is on you, mbongwa wont tell you what to do as i take no orders from human being.
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buddi

Posted 302 days ago
@mbongwamugabe

When you've run out of arguments, that is always what you turn to - if you don't like it, leave. Very original!
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staren

Posted 302 days ago
Sorry Mmbongwamugabe for the misunderstanding - so then kindly please provide some suggestions as to how we can be pro-active in realising political change and accountability...?
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
i_stub_born

Only if you were God boy,think or wish whatever>
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
buddi

I've been accused of so many things in this website so i accept yours like other.
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bugsy

Posted 301 days ago
@mbongwamugabe Look again at Thuka thuka's reply to your question: accountability to what. Brilliant answer. LOL. Hit the nail on the head tere Thuka thuka. Ha ha ha

PeterHarris

Posted 302 days ago
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This thread is embarrassing.

Makoya1zn: You're an idiot.

How can you possibly think the DA (then PFP) was in support of the apartheid government? Is it because you simply see the DA as a white party and you vote blindly along racial lines? You're an idiot.

If a company is not perofmring, the CEO resigns or is replaced by the shareholders. This is because he/she is ultimately responsible for everything that happens to the shareholders' money, good or bad. He is completely accountable. This is why CEO's are paid so much when they do well, and why they get fired when they do not. Shareholders do not accept failure. Yet you do not realise that the same should apply to government - they are the board of our country. Why are you happy that they flutter our money (tax we pay) away on needless things? You're an idiot.

If JZ wants 100 wives, that's fine, but why must we pay for them? If I want 100 wives I have to pay for them. Why do you not understand this? You're an idiot.

Just because Zuma headed the ANC intelligence underground during apartheid and gave us the freedom of expression that we are using now - this does not mean he will be a competent president and leader-in-chief of a working democracy. In fact it means the opposite because he has this "entitlement" complex which means he thinks he can loot our money. Give him a medal for freeing the people yes, but don't let him steal poor people's money. Why do you continue voting leaders into power simply due to their struggle credentials? You're an idiot.

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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
...er.....Actually he is, but he does not realize it....Sadder for the rest but he lives happy inside the four walls............
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l984

Posted 302 days ago
It is always fascinating to observe how certain type of articles tend to hit a nerve and attract certain types of trolls, talibans, fanatics, stooges etc, or as it is the case now - some die-hard or well paid up (or both!) tribalist KZN fan base - and send them into overdrive.

For some people getting over and beyond their own religious, political, racial, sexist or tribal dogmas seems to be a mission impossible! And the worst are the ones that mix them all up into some sickening concoction!

InExile

Posted 302 days ago
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In normal society it would be laughably absurd that miners or anyone else could strike for increases of 200%. But SA is not a normal society.
What the miners are aggrieved about is the backdrop against which they toil They have learned that wealth or just surviving does not come to those who labour hard or achieve some sort of education.
The wealth and lifestyle of greed and opulence of the president are plain for all to see. Then follows the other members of government and then down to the municipal employees.

How did they get those positions: not through education or any competence or work ethic but simply being appropriately connected . That is to say cadre deployment. For what they deliver they are undoubtedly the worlds most overpaid people.
The next category are the tendertrapaneurs: same people keep getting the tenders same people fail to perform but payment is still guaranteed. Again you don't have to work or be educated to get a tender, just corrupt and connected.
What incentive is there for youth to aspire to education and hard work when all around them they see obscene riches flow to those without these whilst poverty is the lot of the miners and other realworkers .

How different it would be if the money spent on arms deals had been invested in delivery of quality education instead of just lowering a passmark to 30%: By now we would have had a generation justifiably proud of working at decent productive work for decent remuneration.

Verwoerd will be smiling: An ANC government ensuring they educate to ensure they fit the people for the station in life that he would have liked them to become accustomed and unable to distill the truth about their leaders utter indifference to their plight. When all else fails play the race card and all will be forgiven!

To canvas the votes of the people you have betrayed, do betray and intend to continue to betraying ought to be a crime against humanity.

Wake up Voters. Your vote was hard won. Why was it so important?: so you could get what you now have?

cANCerSurvivor

Posted 302 days ago
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I think the reason everyone is upset about all these costs is that that is a hell of a lot of money for very little leadership.

The constitution allows for polygamy and the perks of the presidency allow for spousal support. These are not the issues. The real problem is that we allowed a man like Jacob Zuma to become our president in the first place.
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Scribbles

Posted 302 days ago
I disagree, simply because the law allows for a perk doesn't mean that an official has to make use of it, especially so readily. We should push for more fiscal responsibility from our officials while urging them to turn their attention to priority areas.

As for allowing a man like Zuma into the presidency, I agree... huge mistake, but there's little to do about it now. He's entrenched himself fairly well.

Polony_Lips

Posted 302 days ago
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@ Makoya1zn

I am amazed by the amount of ANC trolls that surface on these discussions when the great chief of the nations integrity and ethics and financial waste comes to be discussed.

First of all, its is the norm for a president to earn these perks, yet then again presidents in other countries actually contribute to the well being of their citizens and don't just enrich them selves and their families.

You utterances and way of attacking people when they don't agree with you is a typical of an ANC member. I also see that when ever some one disagrees with the "chief" in charge you think they hate him. As you have a democratic right to support a bunch of criminals like the ANC as leaders, I and any other member on this forum have the right to disagree with you. And just keep in mind , some of us know who you are.....
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Whyetfull

Posted 302 days ago
I distance myself from your wild claims. You are guilty of the same accusations you make about others. Look at your language, you call people 'criminals' simply because they are not on your side of politics. How would you feel if people wer to call you racist simply because you are whyte? Thats the logic you seems to be using. In you world, ANC= Criminals. Just know that in other people's world whyte/da=racist. You can live in that world if you like, but surely I do not want to be part of that small and simplistic world.
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Polony_Lips

Do u wear glasses if u DO wear them now if u DON'T i suggest u go see an optometrist now now now.

Firstly i never attacked anyone who did not deserve it if u can READ clearly u will see that i am being called an idiot/criminal. Why? cause i hold a different view. I never provoked or attacked anyone who did not do it 1st. Please if u don't want a reply then don't use this platform cos we are well within our right to disagree if someone is lying/un-informed.

As for u knowing who i am SO WHAT??
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
.....naturally born rock-driller........
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RobtMugabe99

Posted 302 days ago
@Makoya1zn
Posted < 1 minute ago


it so disturbing that we still see west agents dictating to us how to live our lives, how many wives you need to have, yet they divorce day in day out, polygumy is practised in middle east without any western interfearence.


South Africa will always be backward country as long as we allow these western people to dictate to us whereas Robert Mugabe has freeid the Zim completely from colonisers
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
""...No wonder all africans irrespective their abilities, capacity and intelligence, are looked upon with a suspicious look of corruptibility and easy manipulation: "How much is this moron going to ask or prepared to accept in exchange for his 'cooperation/participation, etc".........."What is in it for me??"........""

...Indeed, SAfrica like other Thurd World country will go backwards as the same mentality persists..........
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buddi

Posted 302 days ago
@RobtMubabe
South Africa will always be backward country as long as we allow these western people to dictate to us whereas Robert Mugabe has freeid the Zim completely from colonisers

That is the funniest thing written out of all comments! You will stay a backward country as long as you have people taking muti to make them invincible!
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Buddi

My man that is not funny & u are making fun of our beliefs & culture. May their souls rest in peace

TBMM

Posted 302 days ago
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I think people have moved away from the article. We need consider 1) Whether we give this article any credence. I.e. do we believe that any of the numbers quoted here are realistc, as there there are no sources provided for the information. 2) This article was written by the DA, so it was never going to say anything other than that the president is costing us too much money. But when we look at the expenditure items we must remember 1) that all govt. employees get a salary and a pension, so those items don't really count. 2) Every minister gets a car allowance, so that is immaterial (if there is a problem with the amount, then the discussion should be on changing the ministerial handbook) 3) There is no president who does not travel nor is there a president who travels without VIP protection. (I'm pretty sure that the BA flight that David Cameron flies on has very few other people. Let us not pretend that there are 100 other people/passengers on board the same flight. 4) Why include amounts that are unkown, for all we know they could be R 0.00 5) Spousal support is really dependant on whether we keep adding to this amount each time he gets married, otherwise it's a non-issue (should we reduce your salary because you can afford to support more than one woman?) 6) Comparisons with other presidents are not useful unless you have a breakdwon of how and why those amounts are determined. Lastly, we should focus on changing the rules for parliamentarians, because whoever is the president will be entitled to all of these benefits.
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
The only other source of information that could be credible would have to be from a private and independent source......The government Mafiosi think like you....

No civilized government anywhere considers allocations to the president and ministers as "entitlement" , except the corrupt ones and the troglodyte tribes with little chefs at the head and historic 'kingdoms, serfdoms and empires'.......

The allocations to government and other authorities are in relation with the economy and finances of the country in question and its necessities,,,,,,,,,except the corrupt and corruptible ones and the troglodyte tribes with little chefs at the head......For that, they create laws that allow thievery and mismanagement, appoint corrupted and corruptible officers to protect and persevere in thievery and mismanagement and create "handbooks" and "manuals" to legalize thievery and corruption............
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TBMM

Posted 302 days ago
So having decided that "The only other source of information that could be credible would have to be from a private and independent source", you still don't know where his sources come from, yet you are quick to say they are credible. Why? Is it because it was written by the DA?

We should be careful of using the words like "civilised government", they all have their own dark histories and skeletons. Do you really believe that in these "civilised governments" the president is not given, as a standard, private security; a car with a driver; private flights and accomodation; e.t.c ?

"The allocations to government and other authorities are in relation with the economy and finances of the country in question and its necessities" This is a very obvious statement, but without any real substance to show that you have done any research into how they arrived at their figures, except to say that they are lower or higher. If in fact you do know something about how they arrived at their conclusions, please enlighten us. The article says that the US presidents costs include the operation of the White House, but you have no idea what percentage that actually is. You have simply assumed that the costs are in line. Let us not be misled by half truths and vague figures and assumptions.
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
....what is your research to justify the "entitlement" privileges Zuma-ANC government are just and fair and in accordance to our needs ???....

Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
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I've been insulted, called an idiot some called me a criminal for what exactlty? because i hold a different view?.

Now i'm just gonna be blunt about this : For over 5 decades apartheid has been in existence in SA & along that period blacks were made to feel like they are less superior than their white counter parts & vice-versa so i don't expect it to change anytime soon. Even psychiatrists/psychologists will tell you that the most resistant human organ in a human being is the brain. People are very resistant when it comes to change & will try anything to hold on what they once had(dominance over blacks).

Unfortunately that era is over & there is a new sheriff in town. They complain about nepotism, if u want to see the real nepotism go to a white/indian owned company even their grand children, uncles, aunts, wives & husbands all work in the same company & yet they complain everyday without fail to us about Nepotism. Oh please!!!

You ain't seen nothing yet Land reform & nationalisation are still coming so i urge u to start preparing now. As our the late Charles Ngqakula once said "If u don't like it here pack your bags & leave".

Now i'm gonna be called a racist but honestly why would u wanna stay in a place/country if u are not happy? it makes no sense.

Lastly I love all my fellow South Africans irrespective of colour, race or gender i just don't like it when people think they are superior than others simply because they were taught to think that way.

Having said that i would like to leave u with these 6 words
My ANC My Vision My Future

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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
Your opinions, to which you are entitled to, reflect your degree of maturity regarding basic concepts every human being, exception made from the most profound retarded and emotionally deprived ones, understands and holds depending on the choice....Either that or your sense of honesty.....

When you insist to justify immorality, thievery, corruption as acceptable and even desirable, contrary to anybody with two fingers of common sense, and insist that such is the credo you follow as well as the other millions of SA, then label these other people as twisted as your beliefs, and you give them the image of a corruptible, easy to buy or dupe and prone to be criminals by nature, then we know that your Party, your Vision, and your Future is precisely the opposite of which this country needs.

there is nothing wrong to uphold your opinion, to persist in believing and trying to make believe that an absurd is valid, is idiotic......Don't cry!........
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
It's the very same beliefs i live by, My Anc My Vision My Future. Anyways u SIR are entitled to ur opinions no matter how absurd/pathetic they are.

We have fought white dominance & won. I know its a bitter pill to swallow. But as the saying goes if u can't beat them.......i think u know the rest i mean u are not that retarded.
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
.....Nope, you did NOT fight "white dominance"......If you want to paraphrase Mandela, you conveniently omitted the "I have fought against BLACK dominance", that is the same as before, and clearly you don't belong to the poor "busted" class with no other aspiration of to be a rock-driller as only resort....You enjoyed the "white dominance infrastructure" that left private education for the privileged and supports the dominance of a class over another. Essentially you remain the same: "My Party supports crime, and that's OK with me because I am clever"""
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
...and by the way, since you seem to be a 'kinda cool supa hero' admirer of "Che" Guevara. I bet you did not know his REAL opinion about blacks:

"The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations.".....

....I'm afraid it opaques your "vision" and your "future".........
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
Which party supports crime my man? The Boeremag?
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
Well i supported his cause, guerilla tactics & vision as much as i supported Muammar Gaddafi, Fidel Castro, Edi amin, Sadaam Husein & Hugo Chavez
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Wiseguy

Posted 302 days ago
Dear Makoya,

What you have written is propoganaristic and does nothing for OUR future or OUR vision!

"People are very resistant when it comes to change & will try anything to hold on what they once had(dominance over blacks)."....this is an unfair statement as we ALL know the apartheid electorate voted overwhelmingly to end dominatation of one race over any other !

"if u want to see the real nepotism go to a white/indian owned company even their grand children, uncles, aunts, wives & husbands all work in the same company & yet they complain everyday without fail to us about Nepotism. Oh please!!!"......If its owned its private and they are allowed as much nepotism as they want....it is their profits and if those owners want to give it to their families they can piss their profits against the wall for all we/Jo public cares! The state/public purse is VERY VERY different......the government of the day is or at least should be accountable to the entire country and its people. No pissing of public money ALLOWED!!!

Lastly you wrote..."You ain't seen nothing yet Land reform & nationalisation are still coming so i urge u to start preparing now. As our the late Charles Ngqakula once said "If u don't like it here pack your bags & leave"."......with all due respect to the late Charles Ngqakula....he did just that didn't he? We all know nationalisation and land reform are disasterous for the people and the country......perhaps our late Mr Ngqakula, knew that as well!! But it is NOT to late to learn from the hard lessons learnt in other countries.......we need to give each and evry family living under the tribal authority land in their own name....a title deed, NOW that would be REAL economic empowerment....one that would be a win-win-win for all barring a few tribal elite.....then we would see this country take off...economically and otherwise!!!

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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
...Is the Boeremag in power my 'man'????......


Muammar Gaddafi, Fidel Castro, Edi amin, Sadaam Husein & Hugo Chavez........It explains...Your role models...ha ha ha ha.......Guevara's tactics failed in the end......and still, he did not like blacks....
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
@ Wiseguy

U seem like a smart guy & u seem to make sense to a certain degree. I am a bit busy this afternoon but shall repond to u the soonest i get a chance. It's good to talk with people who don't swear at u when u hold a different view. I have to say that is fresh on this platform & very much welcomed. Thank you my brother
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
I agree it failed in the end because of the Bolivian sell-outs. It does not matter to me whether he liked Blacks or not but i loved his way of thinking, it was fresh at the time. He re-defined the word revolution & for that big thumbs up for him
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
......sure....the genocides you name as role models governed where that 'revolution' succeeded.....and they failed........You should admire Hitler and Stalin too, they imposed their 'revolutions' in large scale.......pity they failed, ne?

...and quite typically from your ilk, now turn to play 'victims' when the cockiness fails........ANC Youth Fleague probably........

mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
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It's nice to see pale skinned pretending to be concerned about governance of our country, the same people are the one's who put a lot of money for zuma to be in power after their unhappiness with Mbeki. Sleep into your bed, you made it yourself.
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
......reminding me of the Purple Fatso Malema who swore publicly to defend Zuma to death and the rest of morons following his ill advised rantings...............
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staren

Posted 302 days ago
Lol, white people gave money for Zuma to be in power??? Really?? Gee and all this time we thought it had something to do with the Polokwane elective conference... just goes to show how confused we are... where do we ask for refunds?
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
staren

You guys are very much happy with the current situation because it allows you to continue looting our natural resources, that is the reason why you spend so much money to put someone like zuma heading our country. Where were you when zuma went to England to take orders from the queen just before he become the president? Remember 200 millions spend by anc in the last election campaign, who funded them? Please don't lie and said Tokyo or Ramaphosa.
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staren

Posted 302 days ago
Yes, mbongwamugabe, I confess, it was me and my mates - we just happened to have R100M lying around to contribute towards his re-election so we thought, "hey, what the heck, lets fund Zuma's re-election"... my extended family and their friends helped raised the other R100M, so that we could continue reaping the benefits of the mines, farms and natural resources we DONT own and DONT have shares in...

Where was I when Zuma went to go visit the queen? Well having tea with them naturally.

I'll just go sit in the corner and think about what I've done...
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l984

Posted 302 days ago
It's nice to see dark skinned too busy gloating, throwing tantrums or looking for someone else to blame (mostly the pale skinned) - to get their own house in order. Sleep into your bed, you made it yourself.
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Makoya1zn

Posted 302 days ago
I sleep in it just comfortably MommaCyndi with no regrets & will not change anything
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i_stub_born

Posted 302 days ago
...more than "you will not change anything"...you are totally incompetent in even trying to.......
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mbongwamugabe

Posted 302 days ago
l984

This is the bed made and funded by pale skinned folks for them continue looting.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 301 days ago
Makoya1zn

HUH?
I go to gym and come back to find you blaming me for something? What did I do this time?
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i_stub_born

Posted 301 days ago
...aw!.....look at you !!!.....all sweaty and wet !!!!!.............
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sean.blyth1

Posted 299 days ago
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... idiot! What planet are you from....

AbommA

Posted 302 days ago
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You south africans are soo funny. You have made little or no contributition to the development of mankind. You all fight amongst each other and consume without making a contribution. Pretty soon you will have gone the full circle and return to the dark ages , just like your neighbours to the north of you. Enjoy the trip.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 302 days ago
May I ask where you are from?

Strangely enough, we have made quite significant contributions to the world. Yes, we fight amongst ourselves but, like most dysfunctional families, we stick together when it counts.
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sean.blyth1

Posted 299 days ago
It must be tough to be so ignorant and opinionated. You join the ranks of those who think all white South Africans are racist, imperialist capitalists who should "leave if we don't agree". Get a life, fuckwits!!