ANC leadership 'deal' on the cards
Senior ANC leaders are desperately trying to hammer together a back-room ''deal'' to stave off a bruising battle before the party's elective conference in December.
The deal is said to have the backing of party veterans.
Yesterday, Gauteng ANC executive leaders met with their counterparts in KwaZulu-Natal after both provinces had endorsed different leadership lists.
The meeting at Isibaya Casino, north of Durban, is the first of many expected to be held between provinces as the nomination process continues at branch levels across the country.
The Gauteng delegation was led by its chairman Paul Mashatile and secretary David Makhura, while the KwaZulu-Natal delegation was led by its chairman Zweli Mkhize, deputy chairman Willies Mchunu and secretary Sihle Zikalala.
Sources close to yesterday's talks said the point of departure was the position of ANC president.
They said both parties presented their arguments for each name on the lists. KwaZulu-Natal wants Zuma to retain the presidency, but Gauteng wants Kgalema Motlanthe.
"If a deal is not found, we are likely to end up with a dead organisation on our hands. These talks are important as it is through trade-offs that a balance will be found.
"The discussion with our counterparts in KZN is one of the many scheduled meetings across the country. The purpose is to avoid the danger that slates have done to the organisation. We have lost good comrades in the process.
"For the ANC to survive we need to debate and influence each other's leadership preferences," said a senior Gauteng ANC member.
But, according to insiders, the candidates for party president remained a sticking point for the two provinces.
KwaZulu-Natal is believed to have insisted that Zuma be elected for a second term, but Gauteng pushed to have his deputy, Kgalema Motlanthe, lead the ruling party and the country after Mangaung.
KwaZulu-Natal is said to have maintained that while it would be taking the highest number of delegates - 974 - to Mangaung, compared to Gauteng's 500, it remained open to suggestions from other s.
Sources familiar with the KwaZulu-Natal strategy said the province wanted to persuade others that Motlanthe stand back until 2017 when he would then be elected president. One of the arguments was that, at 63, Motlanthe still had age on his side compared to Zuma, who is 70.
Part of this deal meant Zuma would delegate some of his powers to Motlanthe. This would be similar to the strategy that former president Nelson Mandela had adopted during his term in office while Thabo Mbeki was his deputy. By the time Mbeki became president in 1999, he had significant control of government already.
According to a statement issued after the Isibaya Casino meeting, both Makhura and Zikalala said the discussions had been "frank, robust and constructive, with the sole aim of building a common approach to the upcoming national conference".
While yesterday's meeting in KwaZulu-Natal continued late into the afternoon, the ANC Limpopo executive committee and its counterparts in Mpumalanga released their leadership slates.
Limpopo has nominated Motlanthe as its preferred presidential candidate, while Mpumalanga supported Zuma for a second term.
The Mpumalanga executive committee said it wanted to continue with what it called leadership that is "in touch with the people, accessible and flexible".
Just like KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga put forward the names of businessman Cyril Ramaphosa for deputy president and Jessie Duarte as the party's deputy secretary.
It wants KwaZulu-Natal Premier Zweli Mkhize as the next ANC treasurer-general, while incumbent secretary-general Gwede Mantashe and party chair Baleka Mbete would retain their posts.
Limpopo has opted to nominate Housing Minister Tokyo Sexwale as deputy president.


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If you have an opinion you would like to share on this article, please send us an e-mail to the Times LIVE iLIVE team. In the mean time, click here to view the Times LIVE iLIVE section.Mike123
Posted 222 days agol984
Posted 222 days agoUDFSupporter
EddyDeepfield
Posted 222 days agoBokwe_S'makuhleMAFUNA
MigalSale
Gormogon1
Posted 222 days agoSecretVoice
Posted 222 days agoIn any normal situation you would argue that the current leadership has done a pathetic job in managing our country. However what does the ANC do? They squabble about keeping the current leadership in place.
The ANC has failed to govern effectively.
KarlMarx1
LeighLe_Gonidec
Posted 222 days agoLet the population have the final say, let them vote for a president, rather than have a weighted back room deal
Duzula
Posted 222 days agoRSA.MommaCyndi
Posted 222 days agoAs Brierce so aptly put it:
Politics : a strife of interest masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage
SuiGeneris
Or to vote for the one whose lies you like the most.
UDFSupporter
Robrt5Mugabe99
Posted 222 days agoMashatile is nt a solution to cdes of GP he looks similar to resistant warlords of Alfonso Dlakama and Jonas Savimbi , all what we need with GP cdes is to identify the problem , analyse and solve it these competencies in the leadership of Mashatile are nowhere to be seen , all he sees in front of himself is Alex Mafias whom are advising him.
He knows very well that GP is nt 100% behind his wishes there is Nomvula the Pemier with her support , I expected Paul should have learn a lot from womens conferences, is still showing signs of Jonas Savimbi and Alfonso Dlakama . KZN cdes are more considerate knowing very well that after Mongaung some anti Zumas will disappear in the political landscape first and foremost Paul Mashatile yet he does nt see that.
.
Mike123
MicaParis
I will never break you but I will always build you as I have a ''feeling of fraternity'' towards your well being on the block unlike other who will persecute you I will never do that!
To avoid being a laughing stock, keep your comments very short to the point as you do not have the ability and grammatical cleanness to put your point across, people like Mike who rely too much on the media for the ANC political insight will never understand you due to the way you articulate your point not necessarily what you have written, Mike did not bother reading the comment by the look of what he had written, he just wanted to ''shame and expose'' you!
That is not how an intellect builds a person to make immaculate commentary in the future, we do not laugh at people but build them!
*Doctor* your comments and write ''short articulate'' sentences to the point you want to drive home and in order to solve spelling and grammatical error, put your comments through ''Microsoft Word'' to automatically edit your work but be careful of the correct vocabulary as English words and verbs are too many to be not what you intent for!!
I care about you Comrade and not necessarily happy when others laugh at you!
Robrt5Mugabe99
Posted 4 minutes ago
blahblahblahblah, you trying to be funny thinking you embarrass me, unfortunately not at all , the point is, this is an informal conversation , calm down , unfortunately there is big problem with you to understand different dimension of commutations thats what you dont understand .
The point is nt all about who writes perfect english its all about ideas , you can claim to be writing perfect english yet your content does nt make any sense , its jut good english thats has no meaning.
My message to you learned cde calm down this is nt a forum to exhibit English usage. Fortunately, my parents did nt invest on me to write/speak fluent english they knew very well how to advise me on technical skills on demand in this country, unlike you whom your parents sent to the best school to read english only to find yourself wasting time on this blog.
katrynVBengal
Paul Mashatile has mustered significant influence since 2008 and recently started to represent a kind of a swing vote come the conference. You are right about Paul's character which is why I believe he would use the KZN meeting to broker a deal for himself pretending it is in the interest of camp Kgalema. Clever fox but no match for Zuma.
MicaParis
Posted 222 days agoIn these opaque process, ‘’in which the main body of the South African electorate has no part’’, there is no talk about any candidate’s vision for the future as no one spells out the way forward in relation to the country not the ‘’Mangaung jamboree’’.
Senior ANC leaders are now punting Kgali as the candidate to succeed President Zuma as he is the favourite of the ABZ faction, which is led by Malema & Sexwale , surprisingly none of these candidates have to face the people of the country or defend what they stand for but are dramatically ‘’discussing and electing’’ themselves.
The unfortunate reality is that we will simply be told **who is our leader** once the decision at Mangaung is made, and that will be the end of it.
The ANC must take account of how few competent and experienced cadres exist within the ranks of the ANC, and how necessary it is, if we are to make any headway at all, that the ANC will have to bring some of these skills and real appropriate experience from outside its cherished ranks for the sake of progress and do away with cadre deployment.
The subtext is that the government must be led by a broader constituency of people whose critical skill is delivery and competence rather than merely being party apparatchiks.
The ANC must choose a man or woman of vision and wisdom who can inspire confidence and get the whole country intact; unfortunately Zuma & Motlanthe does not suit the part for various obvious reasons.
SuiGeneris
That is not true. They are all dressed in silk, which will automatically qualify them to be of sound mind, extremely competent and highly intelligent !
SuiGeneris
So far we have seen numerous 'visions' from ANC leaders, but that was how far it went !
There is a massive difference between having a 'vision' and being competent enough to implement it.
In short, that would determine whether the person is GOOD leader or a bad one !
Politics101
To give you little "umhrabulo" In meetings of ANC and ANCYL branches, members are given time to raise their issues. Matters are then put into vote and majority decisions are final. That goes for all structures upwards. If ANC KZN nominates Zuma, it means most of branches, most of members upheld Zuma's nomination.
If you say, "The unfortunate reality is that we will simply be told **who is our leader** THEN YOU ARE WRONG COMRADE.
Politics101
i_stub_born
...It is so funny when shebeen theoreticians pretend to educate the rest of the people on failed principle they understand as "democrazy"..............It is not THE PEOPLE that elects a president, but THE PARTY, and when the party is riddled with corrupt politicians, they elect the Mafia Capo di tutti capi......THE PEOPLE is f...up...........
SuiGeneris
Commonly referred to as ''vision'' by our ''learned giants'' suffering from verbal diarrhea.
m1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 222 days agoThe unpardonable temerity of this is that its logic is so false it cannot be twisted even by our notoriously pedestrian analysts. The fallacy can be attributed to the disjunctive—"either Zuma -or Motlanthe "—premiss, which renders this argument fallacious because its disjunctive premiss is fallaciously supported. It can follow this route: either Zuma or Motlanthe; If Zuma, then president; if Motlanthe then president; therefore president. The derisive part is that both 'fixers' are a mere portion of the larger picture, made up of branches, who will vote as individuals in a secret ballot?
A disjunctive syllogism would follow this line: Either Zuma or Motlanthe. Not-Zuma. Therefore, Motlanthe. This would still cancel out the wishes of the final arbiter - the branch represntative.
The horribly absurd in this is that the actors reduce the choice of a larger group into a two-horse race, for purely personal reasons. Whilst Mkhize's interests will be served by maintaining the status quo; Mashatile's ( and Motlanthes) will be postponed to a further bleak and future chance, where the legitimacy of the party will be so compromised by the current Zuma looters. This 'deal' is characterised by what is not stated than what is said. It cannot be in good faith even for one of the participants.
Politics101
In personally think it shows maturity for KZN to come up with such strategy. Motlante will be Zuma's understudy and will take helm at due time. The smooth transition will take place, and there will be no need of another Polokwane disaster. For sure opportunists like Mashatile and Sexwale will be against this.
RSA.MommaCyndi
Posted 222 days agoDarwin_Rules
Posted 222 days agoRobrt5Mugabe99
Posted 222 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 222 days agoPolitics101
Posted 222 days agoRSA.MommaCyndi
Politics101
Corruption was there before ANC and will be there after ANC, it just the matter of controlling the levels.
RSA.MommaCyndi
Last elections I thought they had got it because they were actually spending a little bit of time campaigning for their manifesto instead of the usual 'ex-wife' responses. Then the ejits decided on a 'stop Zuma' campaign! Which fool came up with that red flag?
BigDuke40
Posted 222 days agoPolitics101
While enjoying majority membership and strong support from provinces like FS, Mpumalanga and Noth West, ANC wings like MKVL and ANCWL, Cosatu and SACP, KZN continues to be humble and respecting, by inviting rival provinces to negotiate a polite way forward. KZN comes up with a strategy for a win-win situation, a well explained and clear strategy that will avoid seeing in-fights within the movement. Zuma as president and Motlante as deputy, while doing most of the President's work to groom him to become the next President, just like Mandela did to Mbeki.
This is a sound strategy only opposed by those who have narrow self ambitions and don't care about the future of the organization. They don't understand that without a compromise from either side, the organization is at stake.
m1si2zi3nzo4
Your problem is that you have nothing to bring to the bargaining table. KZN is an epitome of political intolerance. Opposition to its elite is either eliminated, or driven out, if it cannot be 'absorbed' even through bribes (Mabuyakhulu, Cele & IFP). You had to hatchet up a poor individual like Zuma, to replace Mbeki, by manipulating his incompetence and corruption. Anyone who can be exchanged with an 'empty suit like Zuma, is not worth any vote at all, including that of a complete dud.
i_stub_born
Posted 222 days ago......HA HA HA HA.......This organization has been dead for long time now. The only way they convince ignorant and uneducated 'voters-for-the-same-morons-with-different-costumes' is by recurring to their superstitious and ancestral beliefs: Vote for Zuma or the tokoloshes will come to bite your butt at night....Rent-a-reverend blessings on contrite faced fraudsters on their knees to receive a blessing from 'the Highest'........Fear to any opposition: "If you vote for them, you will loose your "disconnected from the main" toilet bowls "we" gave you for your "liberation"..........and so on and on............
Thespear
Posted 222 days agoRobrt5Mugabe99
Politics101
ANC leaders are not appointed according to their education, age, sex, and numerous things like nowadays political parties. In ANC we value struggle heroes and therefore entrust them with positions to lead us. People like Zuma lost their time of education for our freedom. After serving in almost all the ranks in provincial and national government, it was suitable of him to be the first citizen.
During this current debate on leadership, people who hold the organization at heart will maintain that organization is bigger than Zuma or Motlante. ANC KZN has recognized the need to avoid a situation whereby by the organization will be divided once again, hence they invite their counterparts for leadership discussion. It won't be easy at this moment for Zuma to recuse himself, hence most of ANC members have come to terms with his second term ambitions. The agreement just after Polokwane was that Zuma may or may not take the second term, Zuma agreed to second term as Motlante shown no ambitions for Presidency.
The short-term solution will be between both Presidential Candidate to agree on terms, or allow Mangaung to decide, however they must make sure that they advise their fractions that, a loss must be swallowed and the organization move forward.
Makoya1zn
Posted 222 days agoI think going to Mangaung with the same "Polowane tendency" will only make the ANC weak & more divided, so having said that i think the status quo should be retained with the exception of Mathews Phosa who is more a dividing factor in the movement then a unifier that he claims to be. I think moving forward the ANC needs to get rid of people like Phosa, Sexwale & co.
These are the same people who were left out in the cold during Mbeki's reign & now i understand why. Nobody can be bigger than our beloved movement. So comrades let's go to Mangaung & show these anti-ANC people that we can differ in opinions but we are able to put the movement first before individuals.
My ANC My Vision My Future
Politics101
SuiGeneris
Posted 222 days agoShort sighted and bleak, I would say !
Makoya1zn
dopla1967
Posted 222 days agoPRESIDENT : CYRIL RAMAPHOSA
DEPUTY PRESIDENT : NKOSAZANA DLAMINI ZUMA
SECRETARY GENERAL : JOEL NETSHITENDZE
DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL : ZWELINZIMA VAVI
TREASURER : TREVOR MANUEL
NATIONAL CHAIRPERSON : NALEDI PANDOR
I am telling you ANC can go places and govern this country until HE comes by the above principle comrades . I know it is just a dream.
Bokwe_S'makuhleMAFUNA
RSA.MommaCyndi
Politics101
Most of your preferences are great but I will rather retain Mbete
Makoya1zn
Posted 222 days agoShort sighted and bleak, I would say !
.......................................................................................................................
As short sighted as it was decades ago when we said we will remove white supremacy from power?
SuiGeneris
The government of the day handed control over to a new government on a silver platter.
A financially sound government and municipalities with everything ticking like a Swiss watch.
Today this government are threatening to collapse for many obvious reasons.
That is if you are bright enough to realize what they are man enough to admit that it is failure.
SuiGeneris
Makoya1zn
@ SuiGeneris
You wrote:The government of the day handed control over to a new government on a silver platter.
Don't lie to me. Why did we have elections if was handed over on a silver platter as u put it. We simply outnumber the white supremacy in the polls so don't lie to me.
You wrote:A financially sound government and municipalities with everything ticking like a Swiss watch
Yet again, don't lie to me there was no handing over of anything on a silver platter. The country was in sanctions & economy was was getting worse. That is why they(Imperialists) ran with all the money & left the country on a brink of economic collapse. So, again don't lie.
Yes everything was working like a Switch watch if u were WHITE but the majority were suffering.
Don't come here with your lies.
SuiGeneris
Not an election !
SuiGeneris
Mshin'wam
Sui Gnereris is lying again.
Have you ever wondered had you not voted "yes" what would have happened, or did the white media not mentioned what the whole world knew?
Politics101
With all due respect, Apartheid Government was defeated by our heroes and heroines who fought tirelessly and some of them died a painful death, leaving behind widows and orphans. It is something most of South Africans wish to forget but it will take more than a generation. The shadows of apartheid ghost are still sweeping around us and will forever be, if there are still people like you among us.
Makoya1zn
Well said my comrade. These people are resiliant when it comes to change & as we did in 1994 we are going to continue in Gov until jesus comes back.
Darwin_Rules
Thespear
Posted 222 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 222 days agoZuma is both a dud and an uneducated one. Every ANC member knows this, but their ego may prevent them in listening to good advice. The problem is that his successor may never have any chance to recover the country from his rampant corruption.
Politics101
Being a president doesn't necessarily mean you have to be educated, but you have to be clever and updated. Mugabe is arguably the most educated President in Africa and arguably the worse President. People like you believe education is only attained in the classroom, so being brainwashed by imperialist. It means our forefathers were doom because there were no western education during their times. I feel sorry for you.
i_stub_born
and so the "maximal representative of your persona" does not need to be educated, neither western nor eastern nor have even common sense.........you deserve your leader..............
DanielMaartens
dopla1967
Posted 222 days agomrreece12
Posted 222 days agoGibraltar
Posted 222 days agoStirrer
Posted 222 days agoThespear
Posted 222 days agoi_stub_born
....SAA mismanaged and indebted up to the crotch rewarded with more new cadres ready to plunder the company.......
...Simelane's appointment by Zuma, invalid by the ConCourt........
...Strikes and chaos and destruction while the ANC struggles to find the new Mafia-Capo-di-tutti-Capi to continue the pilferage.....
......Education in Limpopo fails to deliver textbooks, even when the year ends. (Limpopo's MEC for Hedukeyshun attends private school. No doubt Angie 0,8 marvel is proud)....
Summed up the order of scandals hitting the country by J Malala yesterday, we can say the ANC has made SA work.....towards its grave.......
My ANC......My
Politics101
i_stub_born