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Mon May 20 05:36:26 SAST 2013

Zuma tapes a 'secret'

GRAEME HOSKEN | 30 October, 2012 01:00
President Jacob Zuma. File photo.
Image by: Foto24 / Bongiwe Gumede / Gallo Images

The controversial spy tapes that got President Jacob Zuma off the hook on corruption charges do exist but will not be released to anyone - in spite of a court ruling.

Michael Hulley, Zuma's lawyer, yesterday conceded for the first time that he was in possession of the 2009 spy tapes and transcripts, but boldly stated that he would not part with them.

The existence and authenticity of the tapes have been in question since April 2009, when the NPA claimed that it had listened to them. Many, including the DA, have doubted the existence of the tapes or, if they exist, their veracity.

In March, the Supreme Court of Appeal ruled that the National Prosecuting Authority must release reduced transcripts of the tapes to the DA.

But yesterday, citing a 2009 confidentiality agreement between Zuma and the NPA, Hulley said the argument for not providing the transcripts was simple.

"When we made the representations we sought an undertaking from the NPA to say we would like to make certain portions in confidence. There was an acceptance, with nothing from the SCA frowning on this.

"There was no . SCA ruling to say it was ill-advised for the NPA to entertain such representations," he said.

In April 2009, the then acting national director of public prosecutions, Mokotedi Mpshe, dropped corruption charges relating to bribes Zuma allegedly received after Hulley made representations to the NPA. This paved the way for Zuma to become president.

Hulley labelled insinuations that the tapes did not exist as "preposterous".

He said: "This would imply terrible fraud that the NPA engaged in with Zuma and all the lawyers. Coupled with the fact that the NPA engaged with various government agencies, this would make the [NPA] complicit to fraud."

He argued that the involvement of two government agencies, the National Intelligence Agency and the Scorpions, plus a lack of denial by those mentioned in the tapes, demonstrated their authenticity.

In its case in the appeal court, the DA argued that the spy tapes and the controversy around the way in which the charges against Zuma were subsequently dropped could be put to rest if the matter were deliberated in court.

The tapes allegedly consist of recordings of former Scorpions boss Leonard McCarthy and former director of public prosecutions Bulelani Ngcuka discussing the charging of Zuma with fraud and corruption.

But, said Hulley: "In our letter to the NPA we upheld our contention that this remains confidential."

In an affidavit filed last month, acting head of the NPA Nomgcobo Jiba said Hulley had had the tapes since April and the NPA could not be held in contempt of court for not giving them to the DA.

On Friday, Hulley filed a notice stating that Zuma would not file an affidavit opposing the DA's application. Instead, he would argue the merits of the application in court.

"The only issue that shall be addressed is whether the court order . requires the production of the material sought in this application . this is simply an interpretation of the order."

DA MP James Selfe said yesterday that the party would discuss with its lawyers today what to do next.

"How can [the tapes] possibly be the property of the president's attorney? How can he claim ownership of the tapes if he has no legal right to them?" he said.

Selfe said the agreement referred to by Hulley was never the subject of the pleadings.

"What they refer to is that, during the SCA hearing, when we argued the issue of the reduced records, advocate Kemp J Kemp, who represented Zuma, said he wanted to see everything before anything was released to see if it referred to the representations made to discontinue the prosecution.

"This is not a confidentiality agreement. If it was, it would have been the very first thing advanced as a line of argument," Selfe said.

Wits Centre for Applied Legal Studies head Bonita Meyersfeld said: "Zuma's camp will use every possible means to delay the release of the information - be it through the courts or politically."

Zuma had until now operated within the law, Meyersfeld said.

"This is not about a country run by demi-gods. It is about power and its natural consequences. If the allegations against Zuma are true. it is unacceptable that he is in government, but the processes under way must be followed."

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AfricaRevolt2011

Posted 201 days ago
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Then we need an emergency session of parliament to change the constitution to accomodate Zuma and his spy tapes. How did they come into Zuma's possession anyway since April? Someone must have pressurised the NPA to hand them over to Zuma, probably it was at the time the DA started making uncomfortable noises about the tapes. The NPA says they are not in contempt of court because they gave the tapes to Hulley. It sound like impregnanting your best friend's daughter and when there is a public outcry you seem surprised because you didnt do anything wrong because you paid for damages already.

SecretVoice

Posted 201 days ago
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For a guy who wanted his day in court this is very bizarre behavior. Jacob Zuma is the personification of evil. The people who protect him and keep him in power are equally evil.

PRADO

Posted 201 days ago
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So the only way to see these tapes would be to get the charges reinstated. There must be a way ? Any legal minds out there to comment ?

mcritic

Posted 201 days ago
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I am not a lawyer and maybe I missed the legal issue - but not the logical one. In terms of the law the Government must get legal permission to tape the private telephonic discussions of individuals. Yjey apparently got an interdict from a judge under false pretences and then taped the conversations of some individuals. This is where the issue really becomes bizarre.

The tapes they made in fact relates to alleged discussions between government officials about the Zuma issue - nothing to do with what originally was applied for to court. The Government than handed the tapes obtained through false pretenses and probably handed over illegally to a private individual in the fom of the legal representative of Zuma. Now the tapes is secret because of a confidentiality agreement.

So a confidentiality agreement takes precedent over the Constitution and laws of the country? That type of argument seems to me to be a direct challenge to honest and open governance. I have really serious misgivings about that as a bais on which major legal decisions are based - for instance if it is used to cover up alleged criminal activity.

Why is it that such an issue is used in the way it was? I would say that Davids' lawyers will have a field day on that one - and it is likely that he would be awarded massive compensation and we as taxpapyers would have to foot the bill.

RedCoat

Posted 201 days ago
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Lawyers and politicians in my opinion are devoid of any moral code of conduct and sense of common decency, the arrogance displayed by these so called 'peers' is beyond words.

I was always under the inmpression that when a supreme court orderd something to be done, it gets done, hulley and zuma are in contempt plain and simple!

Release the damn transcripts already!

JohnDoe

Posted 201 days ago
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So this is the new tactic and what people are afraid will become the norm if the Info Bill gets passed. Anything that is "embarassing" now is a secret or a National Keypoint etc.

The sooner Zuma goes the better, my only worry is he will be replaced by some one just as bad

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
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There is always an individual behind every dictatorship, who accounts to no one but himself. Above all man made laws, he creates his own, and make them as it goes. The Mengeles, the Comic Alis, create dictatorships because, they can hide behind the dictators, and cannot be held accountable to the electorate. Hulley has been giving citizens the finger for a while now. He is obviously taking the fall, to protect Zuma from a possible impeachment - which is a reality, given the strong divisions within the ruling elite. But can a puppeteer escape impeachment together with his puppet? Can a principal be exonerated from the acts of his agent?

AWA

Posted 201 days ago
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If anyone now doubts that we have a corrupt president and party in government then he or she is brainless.

How many brainless people will vote for this man and his party in 2014?

When the President does not uphold the law then why sould South Africans?
The country is now trully on its knees.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
Remember the 'necklace' was a reaction to illegitimate rule.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 201 days ago
''''How many brainless people will vote for this man and his party in 2014?'''''

About 65 % of 50 000 000 simply because high morals and integrity means absolutely nothing in Africa.

l984

Posted 201 days ago
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At this point it is them against everyone and everything else.

Bongzar

Posted 201 days ago
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This is pure violation of our constitution, it seem like Zuma is willing to go to the grave with these tapes. Where is our ministry of justice? Why are they so quiet when judicial system is insulted in this manner? Is the ANC going to allow one individual to degrade their image like this? Come on comrades, wake up and save the organisation from the Zuma camp that has no regard for the law and our constituion.
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buddi

Posted 201 days ago
They're all pals and their jobs depend on supporting zuma.

rahima

Posted 201 days ago
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The non-existant tapes:

"Hulley labelled insinuations that the tapes did not exist as "preposterous".

He said: "This would imply terrible fraud that the NPA engaged in with Zuma and all the lawyers. Coupled with the fact that the NPA engaged with various government agencies, this would make the [NPA] complicit to fraud.""

Not preposterous at all to believe that they could ALL be complicit under 783's corrupt dealings going back at least to Shabby Shake. If you are a boy, show us, prove it.
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l984

Posted 201 days ago
"This would imply terrible fraud that the NPA engaged in with Zuma and all the lawyers. Coupled with the fact that the NPA engaged with various government agencies, this would make the [NPA] complicit to fraud."

This interesting statement sounds slightly ambiguous. Is there a hidden message in it?
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
"This would imply terrible fraud that the NPA engaged in with Zuma and all the lawyers. Coupled with the fact that the NPA engaged with various government agencies, this would make the [NPA] complicit to fraud."

Stating the obvious does not make it any milder. In the public mind the biggest fraud of all times, is the ascendance of a person to the top due to false evidence, not tested in a court of law. In essence, it is a fraudulent presidency, which he imposed on the citizens.

andmuchmore

Posted 201 days ago
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i am trying to understand what and how this will help the DA politically. for me its another waist of time and money.
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RedCoat

Posted 201 days ago
Its not about helping any political party.... its about honesty and integrity, stop thinking politically and think moraly, maybe it will help your understanding.
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ChwamaMahlulo

Posted 201 days ago
@andmuchmore. This is not about DA or any opposition political party, but about morals and leading by example from the top office of the land. Imagine if any citizen of the country has been ordered to obey any Supreme court of appeal ruling and he/she decides to ignore such a decision. What will that make of our law? This applies even to the president as he is not above the law. Rememmber what Zuma used to say when he was charged by the scorpion. He said he'll have his day in court, but obviously he never meant that as he's trying every tectic to avoid to answer on 783 charges about corruption, money laundering, recketeering etc. We as tax paying citizens can not allow for anyone to do as he likes about our hard worked money to be used in a manner where there's no countability. I also voted for the ANC due to our bad historical experience, but expected the party to give South Africans a true leader it deserves, not a criminal who will always having to be busy defending himself in our courts due to his mafia style of living. We need someone who'll be busy with good administration of our constitution and country, not the moraly low comrade Zuma as he obviously can't zipp his trousers and stay away from controversy. If you love your country, you would also join us in ousting this thief called "Inkintsela yase Nkandla" before he spends all the money meant for development in his legal challenges.
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Black-Moses

Posted 201 days ago
andmuchmore mystical myth emanating from a brain-washed, indoctrinated psycho.

Black-Moses

Posted 201 days ago
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There is concrete proof, in this concrete jungle, as in Zuma's concrete bunkers, that this head-honcho is hubris. For how long will this buffoon crush all these man made laws just to stay out of jail, and still be the president of this country?

ER2

Posted 201 days ago
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With hulley's contempt of the constitution, parliament and court, he must be summarily struck off the roll and prosecuted.

There is no other option, no little lawyer is above a court ruling.

Mercenary

Posted 201 days ago
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If ever we need a reason why the country is in the S#%t its in we just need to look at our President, another term of this guy and SA will be a basket case. Hopefully we can get rid of him one way or the other

Mike123

Posted 201 days ago
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Any resistance to proving ones innocence is usually an accurate indication of guilt.
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buddi

Posted 201 days ago
Well said. Especially the huge resistance the presidency is showing!

mbongwa=m

Posted 201 days ago
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I can't believe this rubbish from zuma's lawyer, since from when now they[zumas lawyers] own these tapes. Can the ANC save us from this mess they put us on.
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mbongwa=m

Posted 201 days ago
Gedleyihlekiza

You spot on bra but it's shame for the country and i really which someone can save us before it's too late.
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Black-Moses

Posted 201 days ago
@ Gedle

I fully agree with you on this one, but again as in your earlier comment, what is politics..nepotism!
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Gedleyihlekiza

Posted 201 days ago
BlackMoses

Of course you are right but however is vital to show the blind politicians the ''direction'' even though we know that they are hiding under the government shade/ ''our'' tax funds to dodge hunger and poverty! That is why they do not care that much about accountability and responsibility! All ANC cadres are hungry paupers who are gesturing as Cabinet members to ''eat'' and ''go'', that is all!
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Black-Moses

Posted 201 days ago
@ Mica-Paris

The only way to show the blind politicians the right direction, is to remove them from public office through the ballot box.
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mbongwa=m

Posted 201 days ago
Gedleyihlekiza

I so wish you were at Transkei in 1994 when i told the ANC to stop using social grants to gain votes, they nearly killed me i could see then that they were planting wrong seeds to my people. I'm just glad that the ANC will never take back the western cape and they shall govern where they are needed.

danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
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"He said: "This would imply terrible fraud that the NPA engaged in with Zuma and all the lawyers. Coupled with the fact that the NPA engaged with various government agencies, this would make the [NPA] complicit to fraud.""

Why is that "preposterous"?

RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 201 days ago
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So the highest of our courts told them to give over the tapes and they say they won't because they are 'confidential'? Does that mean that I can tell those blood suckers at SARS that I won't give them my bank statements as they are 'confidential'?

If Ngcuka or McCarthy objected, then I could understand it (the tapes are essentially illegal tapping of their phones) but to have someone who wasn't even participating in the conversation to object is just beyond crazy.

danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
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"In an affidavit filed last month, acting head of the NPA Nomgcobo Jiba said Hulley had had the tapes since April."

WHY? Did you give them to him??
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 201 days ago
Hey there Danny,
That is a good point. If you give a 'secret' government document/tape to a newspaper, you get into jail. It seems like this 'secret' document/tape is now not so secret anymore as it is being passed around to people who haven't even got security clearance, let alone a valid reason for having it.
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danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
Mom, the fact of the matter, is that there is no possible legal way in which Hulley could have those tapes.
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 201 days ago
Illegal tapes illegally given to a private individual and used as a defense against a legal system?
SA - alive with possibilities.
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buddi

Posted 201 days ago
Something tells me that it wasn't coincidence that Jiba gave the tapes to Hulley!

JohnGalt

Posted 201 days ago
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Surely Hulley is in contempt of court and the court should/may instruct the police to arrest the man and sieze the tapes - their failure to do so represents a constitutional crisis.
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DonaldKnight

Posted 201 days ago
Exactly!!
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DonaldKnight

Posted 201 days ago
Sooner rather than later!!
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Wort

Posted 200 days ago
It IS contempt of court, but Zuma has nothing but contempt for everything and anyone -- he regards SA as his private personal fiefdom to plunder and pillage any way he wishes.

danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
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People, people! Have hope and pray that Zuma wins in Mangaung....because if he does, the ANC will be destroyed by 2019. We will have to go through these dark times before true freedom from tyranny is realised.
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
We are not interested in the destruction of the ANC, but in the survival of humanity.
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danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
@m1si2zi3nzo4

In this case, it is one and the same thing.
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Gedleyihlekiza

Posted 201 days ago
Danny.archer3
@Gedleyihlekiza Then why are you a member, if they are enemies of humanity?
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
ANC is very broad Danny but however crooks such as Cele and Zuma over power certain comrades like us who have the interests of the people and country at heart! Zuma could have kicked me out when he arrived at the Presidency for being a Mbeki cohort but there was no body to draft Policies and Green Papers for ANC and nobody who understand ''constitutional validity tests''/ law, like I do as such they were compelled to keep and work with me!
I tell you Danny we will work very hard to protect section 1(d), 74(1) (a) and (b) and 88(2) of the constitution which are dealing with bills amending the constitution, multiparty democracy and two presidential terms as Zuma tasked us to find a ''loophole'' to amend those sections. I am a ''Mandela'' supporter as such still in ''government'' precisely to protect those sections only! I will even SABOTAGE the ANC just to protect those sections, they are our future and pillar of strength! There is no use to support and advocate obvious wrong antics Danny, is very painful indeed.
People realised that our mighty ANC is in the process of extinction whilst at it, they want to eat and enrich themselves with the mighty ''green and gold'' before they send the ANC down from the cliff into eternal extinction!
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RSA.MommaCyndi

Posted 201 days ago
It will be a very sad day when the ANC is destroyed. Despite their valiant attempts to destroy themselves, they are still going strong. If Zuma wins at Mangaung (which looks very likely) they may even get enough of a wakeup call at the next elections to get their act back together again.
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danny.archer3

Posted 201 days ago
@Mom....HAHAHAHAHAHA. The ANC is doomed. All that is left to discover is how long it's going to take and how far the country goes down before they do.

m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
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Zuma presidency was acquired fraudulently. So this government is a fraud, and we abet this situation by treating it as a democracy, even paying taxes.

buddi

Posted 201 days ago
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$64million question - if there is nothing to hide, why hide it all?
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m1si2zi3nzo4

Posted 201 days ago
my gut tells me something has gone terribly wrong, when a lawyer succumbs to such stupid gaffe. Or is Hulley capable of long and intricate reasoning. All his statements, including his involvement in the Aurora mining saga, indicate a very stupid lawyer to me. But lets suppose law is about not reasoning, but confusing and winning in court, before a half-awake judge.

What?

Posted 201 days ago
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The President is a human being and a citizen of South Africa and therefore not above the law. Unless you are of course, a member of the ANC. Then the law is bent as it was for Selibi, Shaik and a string of other crooks.

Roll on a real democracy. We have now suffered 70 years of corrupt governance.
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DonaldKnight

Posted 201 days ago
Indeed!

Spitfire

Posted 201 days ago
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The Supreme Court has ruled that the tapes must be handed over. Get the sheriff, with armed guards and enter Hulley's premises both at home and at work and conduct a thorough search for the tapes. Check bank accounts for safety deposit boxes. Rough up scum bag Hulley in the process!! Get the tapes and make them public.
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DonaldKnight

Posted 201 days ago
With the exception of the roughing up, the sooner, the better!

Mangqeshane

Posted 201 days ago
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Wemame, nigula ngamakhanda