Zuma wants 'African' justice
Image by: Kopano Tlape
President Jacob Zuma has tacitly endorsed the controversial Traditional Courts Bill, telling chiefs not to buy in to the legal practices of the white man.
Speaking at the opening of the National House of Traditional Leaders in parliament yesterday, Zuma said Africans had their own way of solving their problems through traditional institutions.
"Prisons are done by people who cannot resolve problems.
"Let us solve African problems the African way, not the white man's way," Zuma said, to cheers from traditional leaders.
"Let us not be influenced by other cultures and try to think the lawyers are going to help. We have never changed the facts. They tell you they are dealing with cold facts. They will never tell you that these cold facts have warm bodies," he said.
Zuma's view could be seen as an endorsement of the controversial Traditional Courts Bill, which has women's rights groups, the ANC Women's League and the Ministry for Women, Children and People with Disabilities up in arms.
Drafters of the bill have argued that it will offer the prospect of access to justice to 18million citizens who live in the rural areas.
But women's rights groups believe the bill will disempower millions of rural women by not allowing them access to the formal justice system when they have been wronged.
They believe this and other problematic provisions make the bill unconstitutional.
One of Zuma's ministers, Lulu Xingwana, who presides over the Ministry for Women, Children and People with Disabilities, has been a fierce critic of the bill, demanding it be redrafted altogether.
When the bill was discussed in parliament in September, she said: "Let me remind you the constitution has an equality clause that supersedes custom. I plead with the National Council of Provinces not to pass this bill [because it] is an apartheid-era piece of legislation.
"It's oppressive to women and discriminatory . We don't think traditional courts should be allowed to impose forced labour. Why are we taking our people [back] to the dark ages?"
There had been "no consultation" with rural women, Xingwana said.
The ANC Women's League - which has endorsed Zuma for a second term - has also called for the bill to be recalled.
Zuma was adamant yesterday that traditional authorities had sufficient capacity to deal with legal matters affecting people under their jurisdiction.
"Our view is that the nature and the value system of the traditional courts of promoting social cohesion and reconciliation must be recognised and strengthened in the bill," he said. But he realised there were genuine concerns that the courts fell outside of a proper legislative framework.
According to Zuma, there was no need to involve external law-enforcement agencies in issues that could be solved by a chief.
He slammed Africans who had become "most eloquent" in criticising their cultural background.
"We are Africans. We cannot change to be something else."
Zuma also lashed out at critics of the government who, he said, continued to mislead the poor into believing "poverty was worse" now than in the apartheid era.
He said there was no factual basis to claims that the gap between the rich and the poor was widening.
"It is an absolutely wrong statement and has been repeated and we have almost come to believe it is true. It is not scientifically correct. It is a spin to criticise the democratic government."
Before 1994 the population of black people had not been counted and therefore any gaps in wealth could not be measured, Zuma said.
"It's a manipulation of the words to make us who are in a democratic country responsible for the sins of apartheid.
"It [the gap between rich and poor] has not been growing since 1994, it has been narrowing.
"Poverty was worser [sic] than what it is now. Fifteen million poor people get the [social] grant, which they didn't get before. If that's not closing the gap, what is it?"
Zuma urged traditional chiefs to do their part to quell violent wildcat strikes over service delivery and working conditions.
He said another Marikana massacre could not be tolerated.
But, he said, international commentators who likened such events to the violent apartheid days were unjustified.
"No, we will never go back to apartheid. In apartheid times the Marikana situation was a daily occurrence. People were being killed left, right and centre, and there was no one to stop it. It was a culture, the nature of government was different," he said.


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Posted 198 days agoLoggenberg
VaalNeto
Loggenberg
Marthasmuffin
kksonuk
What does all that (which you wrote) has to do with winning a case (in civilized court) based on technical error yet one killed a person in front of everyone including police watching. Oh! Am sorry your comment seem to be based on a different article than this one. There are wrongs and rights in African traditional justice and need to be debated and amended accordingly.
cANCerSurvivor
Posted 3 hours ago
Some people want justice from the 15th century but they want to have cars and planes from the 21st.
--------
LOL at that! On a side note, it pains me to hear that the president thinks that the more people on welfare, the better off the country is...
ER2
joster
Wort
Sue07
Posted 198 days agoWhen the pronouncement in defence of this very controversial bill consists of the phrase "Let us solve African problems the African way, not the white man's way," - then surely we know that the free progressive and in particular non-racial society which Nelson Mandela urged us to strive for has come to an end. Racial comments from the President of the country make that only too clear. Cry and cry bitterly the beloved country.
frans.van-erk1
Posted 198 days agoSimonTempler
Posted 198 days agol984
There are large groups of people sharing your sentiments and beliefs. I think they are called 'Talibans' and originate from the caves around Kandahar, Afghanistan. You might want to consider joining them.
m1si2zi3nzo4
muk2
SimonTempler
RSA.MommaCyndi
You leave out all the fun stuff from back then. Lice, dirt, disease, tribal wars, being at Mother Nature's mercy, wild animals ....... Yea, for all it's drawbacks, I'll stick to now.
bd1967
bd1967
I would gladly trade todays lice, dirtbags and wild animals(politicians, greedmongers, criminals) for yester year. At least you were able to control them in the past. LOL.
SuiGeneris
''''Today, people are so attached to material things, like money, possessions and property''''
Not true..... Greed is as old as man himself.
It wasn't brought into Africa by the Europeans.....For instance.....Dingane had a heard of 30 000 cattle.
BobbyBob
You should read some of the tales of early explorers into Africa, see what they found. Slavery, cannibalism, disfigurement etc... This continent is no different from what others went through.
bd1967
As I understand it, no-one went hungry during that time. He provided food for all his people. All the tribes worked in this manner. Yes, they had their battles, this was really a nature thing, as you can see for yourself and had nothing to do with greed. The reason he killed that Retief guy was because Europeans had no respect for the land and traditions of Africans and walked around as if they owned the place. The rest is history.
Today, the so-called leaders only take care of themselves(a concept which originated in Europe) and this has filtered down to the average man.
RSA.MommaCyndi
If there was no greed back then and food was so plentiful, why the wars?
Life back then was brutal. If the rain didn't come, there was no Spar at the corner. You starved or you went out and stole food from someone else. If you had a breach baby, there was no hospital down the way. You died. If there was an outbreak of bovine pneumonia, there was no vet. Your cattle died and you went out and killed off your next door neighbour so you could get his. It wasn't an easy life at all.
bd1967
I am familiar with some of those tales, but imagine this.
Say the two of us comes across an undiscovered village. The people that live here have no clue of the "modern world". So they welcome us and we set out to study their culture. We observe things that are vastly different from the our world, some of these things are "barbaric" just because it differs from our believes. Are we now going to call them savages, because they haven't invented the wheel yet? You see, cultures evolve differently and we should let them be. They will evolve on their own. But now we discover that their village is situated on a gold mine. What to do? We will have to relocate these people and it is obvious that they will not move. So we start corrupting them and cause chaos within their ranks. After they divide, we can then move in and extract the gold. You see, this is an old story and was even portrayed in the movie Avatar.
We must really change our mindsets and start doing things differently.
bd1967
I am not saying technology is bad. It is a good thing, but it depends on how we use it. Do we use it to extort and blackmail, or should new technology be free to all of the human race? I believe technology should be free for everyone to access. Currently it is all about money and the majority of third world countries have no access to these inventions. What is the use then if only a few can access it?
RSA.MommaCyndi
Carl Marx had a beautiful dream. It cannot work in reality. Why should I spend billions of rands and years and years of working so that someone who didn't even bother to get out of bed for school can benefit more than me? There is no motivation and so there would be no progress. If the world worked the way you want, we'd still have a life expectancy of 25
SuiGeneris
Mike123
Posted 198 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 198 days agoA grade two child understands that the Group Areas Act was lifted in 1986, when Zuma was chasing snakes in the Lusaka jungles. She can understand something about the well-known and highly efficient Population Registration Act, the backbone of apartheid. Any pedestrian search will show that the Gini-Coefficient started rising in 1990, and stayed lower than that of Brazil - the highest - for a while, before overtaking it. It accelerated since 1992, becoming the highest among his 'African" community thereafter.
Zuma is doing what the false prophet Alexander did, laying his first scene of imposture where people are extremely ignorant and stupid, and readily "swallow even the grossest illusion. Their lack of education distances them from reality, denying them any opportunity of receiving better information. Zuma's voodoo prodigies, coming from a president, are too large and too high-pitched. They cannot allow them room for reason and reflection, but subdue them to this deliberate drag into non-existing past.
South Africans must think long and hard about the damage already done by these fables to the collective SA'n brain.
SuiGeneris
Please don't tell us that you're surprised by this. This article is living proof that Zuma is still a troglodyte.
amaKK
Posted 198 days ago---
I am one of your so-called eloquent, critical Africans. And you, Mr Prez are a mega-ignoramus human bistable and you need to go.
Culture is an evolving thing not to be cast in stone in perpetuity.
Many things being punted as being part of the culture were born out of necessity and have no bearing now.
And if you are so insistent on our "culture" being that relevant, than adopt it in its entirety and stop being so selective. I wonder how your wives will feel about giving up their manicured hands and LVs and the R200b renovations that the undesirable whites and critical blacks forked out money for.
l984
Posted 198 days agoIt is incredible how much retrogression can be described in so few words.
Is this a call to disregard non-racialism, non-discrimination, democracy, freedom and equality, law and order and the supremacy of one of the most progressive constitutions???
muk2
Posted 198 days agoi_stub_born
Posted 198 days ago...Zuma-ANC-COSATU way........
...better than Frank Sinatra....ha ha ha ha ha........
SuiGeneris
JohnDoe
Posted 198 days agothe Traditional courts bill basically says some chief who may or may not be qualified (i.e. unbiased, knowledgeable) gets to decide on "cases" just because he was born into it and his decisions may or may not be in line with the constitution.
If there was ever a clear case of discrimination it is this bill
Robrt7Mugabe99
When I was listening to R2000 last night about spy tapes Adv William Botha said it all those who did nt listen must stop irritating us, he made it loud and clear those tapes are part of top secret info at NIA, under no circumstances will be access by any body, DA must forget and move on.
Again Pres Zuma is the man who resuscitated political deaths of the very same people who want his blood the likes of Phosa,Tokyo,Nyanda etc who were silenced by Mbeki, even the very same DA, JZ tried to bring them around the table in actual fact all opposition parties who were silenced by Mbeki.
People like yourself are naive, really sick , you need to go to mental hospital for inspection
RSA.MommaCyndi
The chances of a woman getting justice in a largely misogynistic culture is next to ZERO. The chances of a lesbian or a gay getting anything close to justice is far less than bogeral.
RSA.MommaCyndi
Posted 198 days agoRobrt7Mugabe99
Posted 198 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
BobbyBob
Youre not being fair to those poor goats
bd1967
Posted 198 days agoIf people still believe that we are living in a democracy, they are "cracy", and if people still vote for this madness, they are "cracier". The world is ruled by evil men, so whenever you vote, you vote for an evil person to rule your life, shackles and chains, and you will always live in bondage. Instead, people must wake up and start seeing the truth, which have been hidden from us for thousands of years, and become responsible for their own freedom. You are doing future generations(your children) a disservice with your ignorance.
The truth cannot be given to someone who is not seeking it.
The choice is yours.
BobbyBob
Stirrer
Posted 198 days agoI bet he would have no qualms going straight from addressing traditional leaders to addressing the legal fraternity and contradicting himself!
bd1967
deebee
Posted 198 days ago------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Culture is a wonderful thing: it defines who we are and gives us a sense of belonging. It should never be sneered at or looked down. No 'culture' is inherently superior to another: each one has its strengths and weaknesses. It should be something that we all take pride in. Culture and cultural practices, however, are not static - they are ever changing to meet the needs and challenges of society as it progresses. Societies and cultures that fail to adapt are doomed to decline and die. Every successful society today has adapted their culture to fit a modern, dynamic world.
Whether they be 'white' (I wonder what Rio and Anton Ferdinand would make of that!), Asian, Latin American or African, successful nations successfully adapt their cultures and social practices to meet the challenges of today's environment.
Zuma and his Luddite supporters would, however, rather drag us back to the 19th Century in order to cling to power, than to adopt modern, multicultural, global standards, mores and legal principles.
Darwin_Rules
Posted 198 days agoSounds like an extract from "The Last King of Scotland"
SuiGeneris
Posted 198 days agoA double standard is the application of different sets of principles for similar situations, or to different people in the same situation.
A double standard may take the form of an instance in which certain concepts (often, for example, a word, phrase, social norm, or rule) are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group of people, but are considered unacceptable—taboo—when applied by another group.
A double standard, thus, can be described as a sort of biased, morally unfair suspension (toward a certain group) of the principle that all are equal in their freedoms.
Such double standards are seen as unjustified because they violate a basic maxim of modern legal jurisprudence: that all parties should stand equal before the law.
Double standards also violate the principle of justice known as impartiality, which is based on the assumption that the same standards should be applied to all people, without regard to subjective bias or favoritism based on social class, rank, ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age or other distinctions.
A double standard violates this principle by holding different people accountable according to different standards.
BobbyBob
Posted 198 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
What?
Posted 198 days agoBobbyBob
Posted 198 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
SuiGeneris
There is an old saying.....Bullsh!t baffles brains.....
ppss
Posted 198 days agoi_stub_born
Posted 198 days ago"""As a business person I cant say much about law""
It's called "Business Un Ethics".....................HA HA HA HA HA HA.............My ANC....My WAy of Life...........
kksonuk
Posted 198 days agoRSA.MommaCyndi
So African people don't have instincts and the judicial system of the 'white' people cause disease. WOW
kksonuk
SuiGeneris
And vice versa......Your entire comment smacks of thumb-sucking !
RSA.MommaCyndi
m1si2zi3nzo4
Posted 198 days agom1si2zi3nzo4
SuiGeneris
As the king you can build a palace worth over R200m - Oh no, I had nothing to do with it.
You can sign laws without being bound by them - Yes, that's right, don't do as I do, do as I tell you.
You will no longer be subject to any court judges - Yes, that's right, I am above the law.
You can have as many children as you want without being responsible for their upkeep - That is our tradition.
All women are subject to your hoochie, anytime, anywhere - Women should be maids in the kitchen and sluts in bed.
You will not be subject to any form of election by mere mortals - What do mean, I was elected by 4500 people of this country.
your reign is permanent - Yes, that's right, until Jesus comes.
Ladies can only cook and service us without having to go to work - I have already answered this one.
But there is a catch; all your subjects must re-elect me for a second term - Naturally, there is no one better than me. I am the Alpha and the Omega of SA.
sibujwana
Posted 198 days agoProf Okori once said,a type of leadership we elect to lead us says a lot about us -the masses .
Robrt7Mugabe99
sibujwana
So please familiarise yourself why your idol RM is not him serious ... then we can talk
SuiGeneris
The problem with you is that you do not realize that people will always remember leaders for their mistakes.
Zuma will go down as the worst leader this country has ever seen.
This will of course exclude you going through life with blinkers over your eyes.
Robrt7Mugabe99
Posted 8 minutes ago
mbeki was nt the best however his puppet will love him to death , even his father Govan Mbeki told him he has no leadership skills, followed by Hani told Mbeki face to face , that he wont be his leader, then you tell me , who are you, mbeki silenced everybody , covered up many scandals , appointing a PP that was toothless.
Dont tell me about Mugabe, SA was distance by Angola and Libya under Mbeki , dont tell me about the beggars called Zim, unless you dont know what is behind Angola and Libya , zombi of mbeki geese, myself I dont care about Zuma as long as he creates business opportunities for evryone to invest not you nt in business space
sibujwana
i_stub_born
...the only "business opportunities" Zuma would create are those reeking of corruption and blatantly unethical....Any "supporter" of those is as corrupt, twisted and amoral as Zuma himself. Their motto is "steal as much as you can, from whoever you can and as fast as you can".......
m1si2zi3nzo4
Wait until his second term, then you will never forget him. My bet is that he will become a SA' first king. Otherwise whose laws will these tribal courts apply? Who will handle the appeals of these different ethnic courts other than their founder? What would be the point of building a NY City in the deep rural Nkandla, if it is not to be a Great Place?
Robrt7Mugabe99
Posted 54 minutes ago
You make me laugh heey, when I tell you why Mbeki is nt a leader you change the topic, whats the relevance of Swaziland, nobody knows. As I said you focus on his mistakes than any other things Iam giving an objective comparisons not being Zumas follower or Mbekis enemy, but believe me Zuma is the best , he brought all people on the table silenced by Mbeki but today they turn against him , real snakes. Gedleyihlekisa is more preoccupied by Masters of Mbeki she does nt see if things go wrong or what , mcxxxm . Bragging about academic qualifications that does nt provide a constructive social improvements is very dangerous in SA
sibujwana
Bebesocs
Wiseguy
Posted 198 days agoIGNORANT, NAIVE, OPPORTUNISTIC, EVER the POPULIST, TRIBALIST, BACKWARD THINKING, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, SEXIST, UNDEMOCRATIC, ELITIST, PATRIARCHAL, ........oh yes and PPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAATHHHHHHHEEETTTIIIIC!!!!!
COME ON ANC, I know you want to hold onto the tribal vote......but REALLY, do you have to stoop so low? The common people who live under these tribal authorities need you to grow up and fight the fight for them, on their behalf, they have great difficulty doing it by themselves....they need your assistance to empower them, provide decent education and healthcare, seek justice for them, create and enforce OBJECTIVE laws that are enforcable, non-sexist, nonracial and help bring them into the modern era !!
OMG.......how the mighty ANC has fallen !!! SERIAAASS!!
Bebesocs