Eusebius on TimesLIVE

PODCAST | Mcebisi Jonas: ANC suffers a ‘crisis of reason and of perspective’

08 August 2022 - 09:02
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Democracies, former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas argued, can be weakened by people who use democratic processes to gain access to the state, then weaken it for anti-democratic ends. File photo.
Democracies, former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas argued, can be weakened by people who use democratic processes to gain access to the state, then weaken it for anti-democratic ends. File photo.
Image: David Forbes

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Former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas says SA needs to be alert to “democratic backsliding”.

He was a guest on Eusebius on TimesLIVE, where he teased the concept, discussing it within the context of realpolitik.

Jonas said we often erroneously think democracies or states collapse only when there is, for example, a military coup. Democracies, he argued, can be weakened by people who use democratic processes to gain access to the state, then weaken it for anti-democratic ends. 

He focused on three indicators of backsliding. First, unethical leaders can hijack democratic processes and contest for positions to capture power. This is then used for anti-democratic purposes. Second, democratic institutions can be hollowed out and compromised to repurpose them for anti-democratic ends. Third, state-sponsored violence and the politicisation of state security apparatus can be used to quash political opposition and civil society. 

When asked how SA fares relative to these indicators, Jonas said despite ratings agencies not downgrading the country further, it is important to carefully examine the signs of democratic backsliding in our politics.

He and McKaiser ended the podcast with a spirited debate, specifically about whether the ANC, as a political and ruling party, is capable of renewing itself and leading the country away from backsliding indicators.

Jonas conceded the ANC suffers a “crisis of reason” and one of “perspective”. He also said such is the disconnect between the party and communities it is meant to serve that its policy conference was akin to listening to people at Sun City pontificating about life in Soweto.

To listen to previous episodes, go here.

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