A storm is brewing among foundations over the management of logistics relating to the national dialogue, with some threatening to withdraw their participation days before it starts.
TimesLIVE Premium understands that foundations, including those of former presidents Thabo Mbeki and FW De Klerk, have indicated to President Cyril Ramaphosa’s team that they intend to announce they will withdraw their cooperation in the dialogue.
Foundations involved in the dialogue include that of Mbeki, Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe, FW de Klerk, Desmond and Leah Tutu Legacy, Umlambo, Chief Albert Luthuli, Kgalema Motlanthe and Jakes Gerwel.
Insiders who have spoken to TimesLIVE Premium said issues include venues and funding. This comes just days before the dialogue, which formed part of an agreement between Ramaphosa and different parties that formed the government of national unity, is expected to take place.
Controversy over the national dialogue has been brewing since the DA announced it would pull out of the talks after the sacking of its deputy minister, Andrew Whitfield.
Ramaphosa announced the date of the dialogue in June, and said it was a chance for all South Africans to come together and help shape the next chapter of our democracy.
“Through the national dialogue, we seek a shared vision of what it means to be a South African and develop a new national ethos and common value system. It is an opportunity to forge a new social compact for the development of our country, a compact that will unite all South Africans, with clear responsibilities for different stakeholders, government, business, labour, civil society, men and women, communities and citizens,” he said.
“It is anticipated that the national dialogue will drive progress towards our Vision 2030 and lay the foundation for the next phase of South Africa’s National Development Plan. The national dialogue itself is not an event. Rather, it will be a participatory process that unfolds in phases, from local consultations and sectoral engagements to provincial and national gatherings,” Ramaphosa said at the time.”
The dialogue has been widely criticised for its bloated budget, with expectations that it could cost taxpayers close to R700m, a figure government has promised to whittle down.
Rumours that the Ramaphosa and Mbeki teams have been at odds over the process have been brewing, with some in the president's camp claiming that the former president was trying to hijack the process.
TimesLIVE Premium understands that a meeting was scheduled late on Thursday between a team in the Presidency and members of various foundations to iron out these differences.
An insider from the De Klerk Foundation said it has taken issue with the upcoming indaba because it has no line of sight on how funds are being utilised in their names. The insider said the foundations may still participate in the marathon dialogue but not in the upcoming one day “spectacle”.
Another insider from the Mbeki foundation said that part of the problem was the venue.
They said the foundations had requested that the dialogue take place at Nasrec, but the government insisted that it be held at Unisa. They said the government was of the view that it would save close to R7m in venue costs as Unisa had offered to host it for free.
Another insider said it was mainly a logistical battle.
The insider said the foundations intend to communicate their disenchantment about the government hogging the logistics of preparation to the media.
The insider added that the foundations argued that funding for the dialogue must be put in a separate Nedlac account and be utilised transparently.
“They do not want to partake in a thing that could later be deemed to have been corrupt, while the dialogue was also meant to address corruption in the country. If the government wants to run the logistics bit alone, invite people, pay for stuff and then announce figures spent later, they want out.”
It is understood that Dr Reuel Khoza was asked to mediate Thursday's meeting though this could not be independently verified. One member of the interministerial committee on the dialogue said this was puzzling, claiming that the preparatory team was run by the foundations and chaired by the Steve Biko Foundation.
“We were also with Thabo Mbeki over the weekend at the NEC, and he articulated the state of readiness for this convention. So it’s not him. They must sort out their problems, because I’m telling you it cannot be the Mbeki and the Biko foundations doing all these things.
“And as far as we are concerned, if it’s not those two big foundations, then we are fine. They must not involve us in their internal squabbles. That R700m was their costing, it was not ours. All we said was that it is too much and they must significantly reduce it. So I don’t know what their problem is. All we insisted on was that Nedlac is going to provide the secretariat for the dialogue, we said it can’t be them doing everything,” the minister said.
I sincerely hope that all political leaders and the parties they lead will recognise the inalienable reality that the people are our country’s sovereign authority.
— Former president Thabo Mbeki
Another ANC leader accused the foundations of having attempted to lobby civil society against the government.
“The foundations planned to portray the stakeholders as people who are not co-operating, but that didn’t work. Basically they wanted to run this thing on their own. But it’s impossible because the government is putting in money, and they will have to make sure they can account for the money spent on this dialogue,” they said.
This comes after Mbeki defended the dialogue following DA leader John Steenhuisen’s criticism. In an open letter in July, Mbeki said he would like to assure Steenhuisen that representatives of South Africans would attend the dialogue, adding that he was confident the dialogue would make a historic and seminal contribution to the efforts to chart a way forward for the country.
“I sincerely hope that all political leaders and the parties they lead will recognise the inalienable reality that the people are our country’s sovereign authority ...The DA acts against its own direct interests when it decides to isolate itself from its sovereign authority when the latter decides to engage in a national dialogue to determine our country's future.”
Mbeki said the national dialogue was borne out of a 2016 agreement by his own foundation and those of De Klerk, Helen Suzman, Tutu, Motlanthe and Sobukwe, who formed the National Foundations Dialogue Initiative with the national dialogue as one of its objectives.
While the ANC had agreed to a national dialogue, he advised the party that civil society would not agree to participate in the process led by the ANC and the GNU, proposing that instead the matter should be led by the foundations.
Presidency spokesperson Vincent Magwenya had not responded to TimesLIVE Premium questions at the time of publishing the story.
An insider with intimate knowledge of the proceedings said only three organisations are suspected to be involved in the disagreement, naming the Mbeki, Albert Luthuli and Steve Biko foundations.
Ramaphosa had met with the foundation leaders who had threatened to exit the task team should the government fail to postpone next week's dialogue on Thursday evening, the source said.
“The majority do not want to exit the task team, and it's not all the foundations that are in the task team. The Ahmed Kathrada, Nelson Mandela foundations... have not indicated any unhappiness.”
The insider said while the foundations had expressed their frustration over the state of readiness for the national dialogue, civil society remained on board.
“You have these three foundations who volunteered themselves and wanted to be part of the task team, but also wanted to exert some kind of control over the process, and now are feeling they're being squeezed out because they there's civil society groups, labour groups and all these other groups who have come forward and said, we're ready to go ahead.
“The president was meeting the foundations and the task team for the first time on Thursday evening. They wrote to the president raising their issues, saying the convention must be postponed. The president said, I've noted your issues. I will consider them. At today's meeting, they were still pushing for a postponement, and the president made it abundantly clear, a postponement is going to be severely damaging to the actual national dialogue process and its credibility,” the insider said.
Ramaphosa emphasised that should there be matters stakeholders need to have addressed, those would be improved in the next phase of the dialogues.
“The president said, 'I'm not happy with these numbers that have been branded about, whether they're true or not, and I don't want this thing to be mired in controversy over spending, get the cost down as much as you can'.”
The insider said one of their complaints to Ramaphosa was over the delayed funding transfer. To resolve this, the government had sourced support for accommodation and transport.
“So then the issue of funding being delayed does not have a material impact on the dialogue, simply because of all the support.
“They're going to complain that they wanted to have international speakers come. They couldn't confirm that on time. Surely, you can get local speakers to come and speak at the national dialogue. It's not the end of the world.
"The reality is no one is going to get everything that they want, but the convention must happen, because the convention is the actual kick-off point of the actual dialogue. The president was very clear to them that the convention must proceed."
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