So Many Questions: Alex Boraine, former chairman of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission

Boraine believes that the government's failure to act on its recommendations has damaged the chances of reconciliation.

Was the TRC a failure?

It made its mistakes, but I think overall it made a very considerable contribution in terms of finding out about the truth and enabling people to express their horrifying experiences over a long period of time.

What about reconciliation?

There was a degree of reconciliation, but no perfect reconciliation. That wasn't our final objective. It was a process that the TRC started.

You say it is dead on the vine?

I said that unless there was economic justice in South Africa, it would be dead on the vine. Reconciliation is not some nice magic wand, some weak alternative to justice. Economic justice is the other side of the coin of reconciliation. Without the one you can't have the other.

You say the government ignored the TRC's recommendations, which contributed to the lack of economic justice?

One of the things that was suggested was a wealth tax, which would be imposed on all for one year. We felt that those who had benefited from apartheid ought to be ready and willing to assist in bridging the wealth gap.

Given the government's record, isn't there a legitimate concern about what would happen with this money?

I would be cynical and concerned about that as well. But I am quite sure that if you had people of the calibre of our former minister of finance and our current minister of finance, I think they could find a way to ensure that the money was wisely spent.

But essentially you'd leave it up to the government to dispose of this wealth tax?

There could well be a commission of people who are well respected across the board who could monitor that. I think South Africa is in a very difficult situation right now and we need some kind of economic and social pact, of which this wealth tax could be one of the items on the agenda.

Would you agree that the problem is not so much a lack of money, but the way it is used?

I agree with that. There would have to be some kind of social and economic pact, and a great deal of auditing of what is happening in our schools and health and training. So it is not just about collecting money, but trying to continue the momentum of the truth commission, which I think was lost by the government's inability to respond quickly and genuinely to the TRC's recommendations.

You say we must put the past behind us?

We mustn't dwell in the past because that doesn't help. We've got to move forward. But we must deal with the past that is still with us in the disparity between rich and poor, the deep poverty and the hunger, which is evident in the anger that is coming more and more from those who are the poorest of the poor. That is part of the past, but the way to deal with it is to move forward and not dwell on it.

That's very difficult when the past is so useful to politicians, isn't it?

I agree with you. And that's why I think one of the best things that could happen is for the government to say we can't cope, we need a new Codesa, but this time, an economic and social Codesa.

Is this what we need, or just less incompetence and corruption?

I think things have gone so very badly wrong that we need to take stock and move forward.

You don't think you're being too optimistic about what an economic and social Codesa would achieve?

We can't afford despair, because that sort of paralyses us. If you look at the current situation and the cabinet, one doesn't have a great deal of confidence. But we've got to push forward. Many of us thought 1994 was impossible, but it happened.

Is there the same political will today as there was then?

I don't think it is there in large quantities, I have to concede. But I think the ANC got a very real wake-up call in the elections.

To what extent is the lack of economic justice you talk about a function of bad government?

It is very largely a fault of bad government. We've got such a lack of skills and such inept leadership that we're hurting badly economically, and that means that the poorest of the poor hurt. This is causing people to ask where the hell are we and what should we be doing? The more we can talk to each other instead of just labelling each other, the better it will be.

You've criticised the role of the churches ...

If you look at the role of the South African Council of Churches during the worst of the apartheid years, they were very, very prominent publicly. There is no such public witness to the extraordinarily bad situation we find ourselves in today. If it wasn't for Desmond Tutu, you'd hardly hear a word, and he can't go on forever.

Is it time to release Eugene de Kock?

Yes, indeed, it is overdue. The parole board has failed him. We have a parole system as part of our legal system and we should use it. Second, he was a fall guy. He was bad and rotten but he was following orders, and a great number of people have got off scot-free. He has served his time. That would assist reconciliation. I think the killers of Hani ought to be released as well.