Why can't the ANC fix itself under new leadership?
The current leadership has allowed the politics of patronage to take root. And it's going to be extremely difficult to win the presidential race of the ANC without signing a pact with the devil. All the branches are so polluted. Patronage politics is institutional.
The new leaders will be so beholden that they won't be able to do what needs to be done?
Exactly. You will still have the challenge of the NEC for whatever decisions you are going to make.
Won't it be a new national executive committee?
Let's see who comes into that NEC. Believe you me, certain very questionable individuals will be in the NEC. There is no way they can't be there because the ANC is so factional. There are also inherent ideological issues that have not been resolved. That leads to policy uncertainty and indecision.What impact can your party have in the short time available?
I believe we have an opportunity to unite our society behind what can work for this country.
You see yourself as initiating a mass movement against the ANC?
Yes. That is what I am trying to do.
Isn't this also what Mamphela Ramphele thought she would do?
There are lessons there that we can't ignore. Many people joined Agang because they did not believe in the DA. When she made that tactical error [joining the DA], that destroyed Agang.
It takes structures and machinery, not just fine words, doesn't it?
I have structures. Some of the people that are coming to me occupy seats in the provinces and municipalities. So you are not starting from zero base.
Why do you think you will have a bigger impact on your own than if you joined a bigger party with all the infrastructure in place?
Many people feel they don't have a political home they can identify with. There is a large chunk of people that do not have faith in these political parties. If they did they would have gone out and supported them.
Isn't this what they did in the 2016 local government elections?
The ANC lost those metros, but this did not translate into an increase in votes for the DA or the EFF.How big are the differences between you and the DA?
I may agree with some of their economic policies and some of their value systems, but the reality is that I'm also a black African woman. And the reality is that even comrade ... even Helen Zille ... I like her, but unfortunately she played to the gallery when she started trying to protect colonialism. This creates the impression that if you go to the DA you become a black token.
Do you agree with that?
Not necessarily. It's the perception of people on the ground.
Can't someone like you change it?
I don't want to fight a battle that is not going to be easily won.
Unlike fighting 2019 on your own?
It's not an easy battle, I agree. But my aim is not necessarily to be a ruling party in 2019.
Do you see yourself as a kingmaker in a future coalition government?
Of course...