Q&A with head of governance and diplomacy at SAIIA Steven Gruzd

South Africa has recalled its ambassador from Israel in response to the Gaza killings. Chris Barron asked Steven Gruzd, head of governance and diplomacy at the South African Institute of International Affairs...

20 May 2018 - 00:00 By CHRIS BARRON

How serious is a recall?
It's one of the strongest signs of disapproval.
How damaging could it be to our relations with Israel?
It's certainly a step back. It may accelerate the decision the ANC took in December to downgrade its embassy in Israel to a liaison office.
How damaging would that be?
It's unclear how it would affect trade, but it would make relations even more tense and frosty.
Can we play a meaningful role without a diplomatic presence?
No, we can't. If we leave the arena we lose out on any potential role in solving the conflict or being constructive there. This is a serious step that has been undertaken, I'm sure, not lightly.
Does it look like a considered strategy, or a knee-jerk reaction?
Well, a resolution was taken by the ANC in December.
So is it disingenuous to link this decision to revulsion over the Gaza killings?
No, events in the past week have been the tipping point. But the only other country I'm aware of that has done this is Turkey.
Is Turkey a country we want to be associated with?
That's a good point. Turkey has certainly done some negative backsliding on the democratic front. But I think this is a decision the ANC government has taken on what it considers a matter of principle. It's certainly out of step with what the rest of Africa has done. They've been much more pragmatic and not let their support for the Palestinian cause get in the way of business. And the other Brics countries have all deepened their ties with Israel.
Does it promote South Africa's interests in any way?
I don't believe it does. It sends a negative signal and plays into the hands of the pro-Palestinian lobby that wants a boycott of Israel.Might it antagonise the US?
There's a strong possibility of that. It could have repercussions.
Are we putting our preferential trade agreements on the line?
I don't know if we're at that point, but this is a volatile and unpredictable American administration.
Are the steel tariffs they've imposed on us a foretaste?
There is the possibility that they could seek to punish South Africa. We've seen an administration that is reactive and prepared to punish countries it sees as doing things it doesn't agree with.
So we're putting important commercial interests on the line?
Yes. South Africa would say this is an expression of extreme anger at what's happened, but it needs to be aware that there may be risks. It won't go unnoticed, that's for sure.
Should our foreign policy be putting economic growth above all else?
South Africa has long said that human rights is the light that guides our foreign policy.
Is this why we banned the Dalai Lama?
Indeed. And it's not once he was denied a visa, but several times.
Has South Africa ever objected to China's illegal occupation of Tibet?
Not to my knowledge...

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