Your head of policy says BEE must be dumped, the chair of your federal council says no. What do you say?
Dump the ANC’s model of broadbased BEE because it has failed South Africans.
So continue with BEE, just not the current model of BEE?
Correct.
Is there agreement about that?
Yes.
So why does your head of policy say BEE must be dumped?
The constitution of the party supports redress. It supports the fact that we need to review the ANC’s model of BBBEE. When you say that, it makes it seem as though you want to dump redress. No, you want to dump the ANC’s model thereof.
Will your model be race-based?
Race is still a proxy for disadvantage.
Does the party agree on that?
Yes. Most people accept apartheid was a system that disadvantaged black South Africans.
So no disagreement about race - based empowerment?
We’re saying that progressively, over time, we must look at a model that is inclusive and that over time moves away from race-based empowerment.
Why is there so much disagreement about this?
When you’re looking for a new model there’s going to be a contestation of ideas. I think that’s healthy.Should there still be this level of contestation going into an election?
It’s a contestation about finding an economic model that will include more South Africans. The election is about jobs, about how do we include more South Africans. And therefore there should be ideas that speak to that.
Shouldn’t there be more agreement about this by now?
There’s agreement that society is unfair and we need to address historical injustices.
And about using race as a proxy for disadvantage?
There’s agreement that we have to find a model that progressively moves away from race.
So no disagreement about BEE?
We support the principle of redress. BEE is a policy that deals with redress. But not as practised by the ANC. We’re going to find a model that includes more black South Africans. This is a discussion that is taking place in the organisation.
Is there agreement about employment equity?
If you’re using race quotas as a function of employment equity, we reject that.
Can you scrap race quotas if race is a proxy for disadvantage?
The problem with quotas is that they ’re a manipulation of outcome. We rather want to deal with input. If we want to achieve a work environment in which there are more black South Africans, we need to develop more black South Africans to access opportunities.
What about advancing racial diversity within the DA?
We support it.
Why don’t we see more of it in parliament?
The lists are being worked on now.
Will selections be race-based?
Merit is crucial but race must be a factor...