Q&A with general secretary of the SA Council of Churches Bishop Malusi Mpumlwana

Minister Bathabile Dlamini, in the wake of the Omotoso case, has called for the regulation of churches. Chris Barron asked Bishop Malusi Mpumlwana, general secretary of the SA Council of Churches...

28 October 2018 - 00:00 By CHRIS BARRON

What's your position?
The council is a fellowship of member churches and they have to make that decision themselves. They're in consultation to finalise the thinking on this matter.
So you have no position?
I believe personally that there must be some form of regulation.
Wouldn't that be a dangerous road to go down?
All the churches are involved in this conversation, they're taking it very seriously. You can imagine how inappropriate it would be for me to pronounce on their behalf.
Hasn't the SACC already called for the certification of pastors?
Some are saying exactly that. But as I say, it's under discussion.
My understanding is that the SACC did in fact call for this?
It did raise the issue of Soshanguve pastors, saying the view that they must belong to a structure is a very important one. What kind of certification it should be is the question. But definitely everybody feels uneasy about this being handled at government level . I haven't heard any church leader saying they want government regulation. I've heard them say they're looking at self-regulation.
Even self-regulation involves some form of state control or interference, doesn't it?
Well, I can assure you there is nobody in the churches who wants to be an outlaw. The state has a right to govern.
Wouldn't that conflict with the constitutional right to freedom of religion?
That's what the discussion is. How could that happen in the context of the freedom of religion?
Surely any form of regulation would be in conflict?
I don't necessarily think so.
Who would do the regulating?
That's what we're debating. But there clearly are problems with the way some religious practices are conducted . So some kind of action is appropriate.
Aren't churches already subject to the law?
Most of the established churches are structured and under law.
So they're already regulated?
Most are registered with the department of social development, and that's a regulatory structure in terms of their governance. They're audited and in compliance with the South African Revenue Service. But there are all sorts of churches that have no regulation.
Aren't all churches subject to the rule of law?
Yes, but a lot of the crimes being perpetrated in the name of religion are difficult to detect by the criminal justice system. It takes a long time for people to detect or report these things. That's why there's a need for some form of regulation.
Would there be a need for any regulation if the police did their job properly?
The question is, who goes to report these things to the police?
What was happening at the Seven Angels Ministry in Engcobo was repeatedly reported to the police.
I agree. But I'm talking generally. In the main these atrocities are conducted in an environment that makes it difficult to go to the police. The power of religious leaders can be such that people fear going to the police...

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