Shouldn't the party be compelled to act on your recommendations?
A recommendation is a recommendation, and the people who decide are the ones who have the authority to do so. This is a political organisation and people elect leadership who must run the affairs of the organisation.
Isn't your job to protect the image of the party by acting against those implicated in unethical behaviour?
Yes, but...
Can you do this if you're controlled by the same people implicated in such behaviour?
Issues of control don't enter the picture. The foundation [of ethical behaviour] is at branch level, it's not up there. We have to ensure that anybody who comes into the organisation goes through a process. That is now the approach.
Is it your job to act against those who bring the party into disrepute?
That is not our job only. The disciplinary committee also has a role to play.
Are you going to summon minister Zweli Mkhize?
That is a problem because according to the terms of reference we deal with issues that are referred to us by the national executive committee.
So you won't be dealing with Ace Magashule either?
Anyone who is not referred to us we won't deal with. The terms of reference may be faulted, but that's what they are.
Should they be changed?
Even if I thought so I'd discuss it with the leadership of the organisation, not with you.
Can your commission be taken seriously if it's controlled by those you need to investigate?
They don't control us, we are a commission of the ANC and we do what the terms of reference say we must do. We can't just go and do other things.
Is it important to act against the leaders who bring the party into disrepute, or only the small fish?
There are no big fish and small fish, there are members of the ANC who play different roles.
But you can't investigate the leaders?
That's not true. If referred, we will do so.
Are the leaders going to refer themselves?
The problem is you want to create new terms of reference for the commission, but they are what they are.
Would you like your commission to have more power?
If we want such things we'll tell that to the leadership.
Have you told the leadership?
If I have to take up issues I'll take them up with the leadership, not with you.
Are you sorry you took this job?
If I'm sorry I'll tell the leadership, I won't tell it to you.
You don't want to be seen as puppets, do you?
How can we be puppets when we have created a society where you and I can talk like this?
Will you ask the NEC to refer Magashule and Mkhize to you?
Why do you want me to tell you what I will do?..