Eusebius on TimesLIVE
PODCAST | 'I'm married to an Indian woman so I'm not racist'
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In this edition of Eusebius on TimesLIVE, Eusebius McKaiser is joined by founding CEO of Diversi-T Terry Oakley-Smith to examine antiracism issues.
Bringing her wealth of experience to bear on the conversation, Oakley-Smith starts by explaining how little cross-racial contact and lack of early formation of cross-racial friendships shaped her own and many other white people's lack of appreciation for the lived experiences of black people.
She explains it often requires intentional work or momentous experiences for even “progressive” white people to recognise the salience of race.
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McKaiser and Oakley-Smith discuss the difficulty of dislodging false beliefs about white success. Many white South Africans, argues Oakley-Smith, believe “hard work alone” accounts for their relative socioeconomic success compared to their fellow black citizens.
McKaiser supplements this observation by suggesting that perhaps it is not so much narratives of falsehood but rather “incomplete” stories that white people tell themselves about how they got to the socioeconomic strata they occupy. Some narratives, he argues, also function to keep in place beliefs people have about themselves which they cherish and do not want to let go of.
The host and his guest also examine related themes, including whether the biological incoherence of race means racism and race talk are rubbish. As experienced facilitators of workshops on antiracism, McKaiser and Oakley-Smith also reference methodological tips for how to organise spaces within which productive antiracism work can take place.
Conversations about race, and racism in particular, elicit many different viewpoints. As always, it is up to the listener to judge for themselves whether they agree with the content.
To listen to previous episodes, go here.
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