'We want out of SA'
A South African family is desperate to remain in the US, its members claiming they cannot return home because, as Afrikaners, they will be subject to racial discrimination.
The family's legal representative has been contacting US academics in a bid to get a scholarly opinion that would bolster the asylum application.
The family, described by the law firm as "white Afrikaner farmers", is among dozens of South Africans who, over the past decade, have applied for asylum abroad for a range of reasons, including fear of persecution and violent crime. Some of the applications have been successful.
When contacted for comment, the family's lawyer, Rehim Babaoglu, said the family was too afraid to be identified.
"They were shocked to hear that a reporter was seeking information and they have no comment. They definitely don't want to participate because of privacy and safety concerns," said Babaoglu.
But Professor Mark Behr, of Rhodes College, in Memphis, Tennessee, and Dr Dennis Laumann, of the University of Memphis, have rejected requests that they help the family.
"I am not interested in assisting Afrikaners claiming discrimination in a non-racial, democratic, post-apartheid South Africa," wrote Laumann.
"In my scholarly opinion, there is absolutely no basis for their allegation - whatever evidence they may present."
Behr - who is an award-winning South African author - said he did not believe the law firm would find "any fair-minded scholar" to support the family.
"If the people your firm seeks to represent are in any way victims of racism, it is, sadly, only a racism of their own making, in their own minds.
"Let me add, too, that I speak as a white Afrikaner, from a family of farmers, people who themselves lost farms they owned in Africa, and with my own profound empathy for all people who live off the land in South Africa," replied Behr.
But the family is not alone in attempting to flee post-apartheid South Africa:
- According to latest statistics from the US Department of Homeland Security, about 129 South Africans were granted asylum between 2001 and 2010;
- Immigration New Zealand's general manager for settlement, protection and attraction, Stephen Dunstan, said 48 South Africans had applied for refugee status since 2006. All were rejected; and
- Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees received nine applications for asylum between 2009 and 2011.
Russell Kaplan, the lawyer for South African Brandon Huntley, who is still fighting for refugee status in Canada, said the trend was growing.
"My office is involved in other South African claims - I prefer not to say how many - and I continue to speak to many white South Africans every month who report increasing fear for themselves and their families," Kaplan said.
Gary Eisenberg, who specialises in immigration law, said that, though the topic was complex, he believed that many applicants had a valid case.
"There exist, for instance, entry quotas for whites at universities, and BEE policies restricting the hiring of white candidates in the private sector," said Eisenberg.
"If these measures could be interpreted to be state-sponsored or supported discrimination based on colour or race classification, for example, then a well-founded case of discrimination on those facts could be made in terms of the asylum rules of Western countries, such as the UK, Canada and the US."
But Eisenberg said it would be difficult for someone to apply for asylum on the basis that he felt that the state supported or sponsored the high levels of crime in the country.
Adriana Stuijt, a retired Dutch-born journalist who worked in South Africa, estimates that there are almost 800 South Africans living as refugees around the world.
Stuijt has a blog that monitors the number of refugees and is a member of the Afrikaner Rescue Action Fund, which was started in the Netherlands to help poor Afrikaner communities.
"The latest case, a South African Afrikaans-speaking man of German descent, is in north Germany. He applied three months ago. He fled because of many violent incidents and threats to his life," said Stuijt.
"The latest group of asylum-seekers, from 2011 and 2012, I find are often Afrikaner individuals or families, most of them from farming regions.
"Some are sponsored by US families and religious communities and are still in the asylum process in several states."
AfriForum's deputy CEO, Ernst Roets, said that though the organisation did not encourage South Africans to leave the country, the crisis on the farms has left many with no alternative .
Roets said San Pedro Sula, Honduras, has the highest murder rate in the world - 159 murders per 100000 inhabitants.
"In South Africa, to be a farmer, the murder rate is more than 300 per 100000, according to criminologists," said Roets.
"What encourages people to ask for refugee status is the fact that our government is not taking real steps to address the issue.''
Just this week, a dairy farmer was killed and his wife badly injured in Buffelshoek, North West.
Roets travelled to Geneva in December to address the UN Human Rights Council on the crisis on South African farms. He said the biggest concern was that a minority group was being targeted.
His intention, he said, was to create awareness and put pressure on the government to "take this more seriously".
But Lucy Holborn, research manager at the SA Institute of Race Relations, said statistics did not back up arguments that, by virtue of being a minority group, Afrikaners were more likely to be crime targets.
"The majority of victims of crime in South Africa are black . I often argue that crime is the one thing that cuts across all race groups," said Holborn.
She said there was not sufficient evidence to suggest that crime in farming communities was racially motivated.
Dave Steward, executive director of the FW de Klerk Foundation, said South Africa, despite "some threats" to basic human rights, such as the Protection of State Information Bill, was a long way from being in a situation where people should be seeking asylum.
"The situation on the farms [is] fairly critical but whether that is a result of government activity - often the requirement for political asylum - is another matter."
Yesterday, Home Affairs spokesman Ronnie Mamoepa said it was impossible to say how many South Africans made asylum or refugee applications.
SHARE YOUR OPINION
If you have an opinion you would like to share on this article, please send us an e-mail to the Times LIVE iLIVE team. In the mean time, click here to view the Times LIVE iLIVE section.vatiekakie
Posted 459 days agoUnderprivilegedOverprivileged
White culture is like the lawn of a garden and Chinese, African, and other cultures of colour are like the flowers of the garden. The white culture dominates the landscape while the cultures of colour continue to be marginalised and looked down upon. Over 90% of everyday activity takes place within the confines of the lawn but now and then we stop to “appreciate” the flowers on the side.
ChickenRunner
Annis
Unlike the hordes of non Whites that jews in our government are allowing to flood into our country. These non Whites are a low-IQ, non productive, welfare living, criminal element that is destroying Western civilization.
I cannot believe how the comments to this article reveal such hatred and disrespect for White people.
PSG
Posted 459 days agoMy take is that this family might have skills that the US really doesn’t want just like Canada doesn’t want irrigation specialists like Mr Brandon Huntley :-).
RaceCardCard
RaceCardCard
the_original_MommaCyndi
Posted 459 days agoOn a lighter note, much of Huntley's 'evidence' is actually from the comments section of this very newspaper. Probably why the editor now thinks we cannot be trusted with commenting without censorship.
PSG
Eish I really wonder if the pastures are really greener as they claim them to be :-).
Stas that have been come out from ACSA, Shipping companies etc suggest that there are more people coming back to SA than those leaving. What I find strange is that those coming back don't announce their return as much as when they did when they were leaving telling us all sorts of wara wara what what things :-).
the_original_MommaCyndi
The grass is always greener on the other side. Mainly due to the amount of manure it has.
l984
"much of Huntley's 'evidence' is actually from the comments section of this very newspaper"
Oh? That says a lot, and also explains a lot.
ZA_Mercenaries_Ltd
ROFLMFWAO!!! Thanks Mom. :o)
dunesurfer
GrahamJ
From our deeply flwed constitution, section 9 EQUALITY:
...(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.
(4) No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.
(5) Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.
I repeat, "unless it is established that the discrimination is fair."
And who has used this clause to enact racial legislation to deprive white people of equality? Why, the ANC government, of course.
AA, BEE, BBBEE and the ignoring of white farm killings etc, are all based on what the ANC regards as 'fair' discrimination.
But fair discrimination is like fair capital punishment. You either have it or you don't, there is no 'fair' discrimination', an argument that the ANC used to vociferously argue before the NATS ended apartheid in 1989.
Now it's 'OK' to use 'fair' discrimination against white employees, farmers or specialists. Someone should tell the world...
ray24
So was apartheid fair?
Your probable response:Two wrongs dnt make a right
My Response : I agree with you, however how are we going to equal the playing field that whites received from Apartheid, if not for a mechanism that advantages non-whites?
Secondly our highly "flawed constitution" that you eluded to is actually regarded as one of the best in the world. I stand to be corrected but I believe the dutch and Canadian constitutions are the only ones regarded as being more fair.
ray24
GrahamJ
That doesn't make it right, though. So thanks, I'll stay.
AnotherTaxPayer
I just wish that people would realize that in killing only 1 farmer you actually kill 100+ jobs every time and more maze needs to be imported from the West in order to meet the demand. Hence a higher price for bread. It's like shooting holes into your own boat while you sit in it....very stuped.
tj-boel.ferreira
You tell eavery farmer and that has been tortured and slaughtered in the past few years that the murders is a fictation of his mind. Unfortunately you'll have to stand at his gravestone, to tell him that.
As far as I am concerned, I will do all I can to assist those who wishes to leave that evil place. I will testify in every court of my adopted country, to the truth of the situation in South Africa. I will play video's, show facts of murders and do everything I can, to ensure that, that dark hole receives the rejection it so sorely deserves
Horus
Posted 459 days agoThe BEE laws work for whites; it’s all part of the grand design. The whites are fulfilling their part of the agreement by complaining so that blacks will think ‘shame they are having it hard out there’. Whites are many times better off today than 1994; they enjoy more security, more social stability, more education, less unemployment (unemployment in the white community sits at around 8%, blacks = 29-32%).
iGeorge_S
Posted 459 days agoHorus
Posted 459 days agoAnotherTaxPayer
This is the same trend over and over in Africa.
ppss
Posted 459 days agoHorus
WinKuppers
Posted 459 days agoHorus
A black man driving a BMW 750i is a total discrimination against whites, and a black man wearing a clean shirt is total disrespect to you. Clearly you have never visited the areas where blacks live. You have never seen the rottenness in Alexandra, not too far from the Alexandra Forbes head offices.
Horus
GeneralSpecific
Burkyz_2012
Posted 459 days agoI leaved overseas as a black South African for a while, and experienced racism and discrimination in country like France or Germany...etc,you deal with a different type of racism or discrimination all together...
the Afrikaaner type of racism trend more toward jelousy as it is a competition of distribution of wealth that the country has. The apartheid system programmed most of them to beleive other race cannot be egal to them or compete on an equal footing.
South africa has a long way to go and I will say it once again the Apartheid generation must disappear for our democracy to succeed
IngridDenzin
Spitfire
Posted 459 days agoPSG
There is nothing wrong with BEE, implimentation of the policy is the problem. BEE is necessary to correct the injustices that happened in the past. I'm a firm believer that skilled and competent people should be put in those positions. The problem is that those skilled and competent black people are not card carrying members of certain political parties :-).
I akcnowledge that you were put in a corner by being told that you should be BEE compliant in order to continue benefitting from Government tenders. In my view if you didn't have any opportion but to comply you should atleast have stood your ground and told them that you'd select your own competent person that you believed would add value.
You claim that BEE discriminated against all white. Well do you know that white females have benefited the most out of the BEE "AA/EE" policy as they are deemed previously disavantaged and get higher rating more than any male :-).
Spitfire
PSG
-No i’m not saying it is right to punish young whites for something that they are not responsible for. Racism in SA isn’t dead let’s not think for one minute that it is dead. People from both sides of teh fence ar still racist.
The problems that we still see in this country are predominantly problems that were created by what used to happen. This is a fact and it is a generational
How many generations will this continue for???
-I don’t have an answer to this but our Government should have taken a lead on this and set time lines as to by year so and so we should have been here in terms of eradicating problems of our past but no it is too busy with enriching itself.
Whichever way you look at it - BEE is sick, perverted black racism of the worst kind. It is without doubt a crime against humanity.
-Let’s say I agree with your view that BEE is racism of the worst kind, what would apartheid be?
My question is since you deem BEE to be racist what alternative do you suggest? Equal opportunities wouldn't cut it coz those that are already ahead in the game will always be steps ahead this includes children of people like Mr Sexwale, Mr Ramaphosa etc.
Spitfire
ray24
Secondly, you refer to germany and japan in your argument, what you fail to realize is that the native Germans and Japanese made up the majority of the population in those countries, in germany most of the Jews who were not exterminated , fled the country and never returned, those who did returned were entitled to compensation, so i am not sure where are you getting your info from ?
Also germany and japan where held financial responsible for the war , I stand to be corrected but germany had to pay 23 billion dollars and japan had to pay 1.3 trillion Yen to allies as well as to countries that they decimated during the war. What have the benefactors of apartheid been held responsible for?
The ANC government that we have now is by no means perfect , in fact one could easily argue the merits of their incompetence. However to suggest their policies are equivalent to that of apartheid is disingenuous at best. I'm trying not to label you as a racist as I do not know you at all, but your Andries Treurnicht-esque rhetoric suggest you are!
Maxi
You are really spitting fire without looking at other aspects the current situations in South Africa. To start with, BEE like AA was not started in South Africa. The first implementation of Affirmative Action was in the United States in the year 1961. These policies would be implemented whether you like it. They address the imbalances caused by the past evil system, not to punish anyone.
Your comparison of the current situation in SA to that of Germany is totally unfounded.
If you can refer to the below current unemployment indications in SA you might need to recall your first comments:
Unemployment rate per race
White : 6,4 %
Indian : 10,1 %
Coloured : 22,5 %
Black/African : 29,5 %
Judging from above indicators, you will agree with me that whites are most benefiting from the current system. In addition, whites continue to receive better salaries and occupy better positions than blacks. So how do you explain this?
darkie2
do yourselves that favour, coz clearly the issue here is with black people more than anything.
GOD should punish the whole lot really, you complain for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. have you seen the porvety experienced by black people, living in shacks, dumps, homeless, kids going to bed without food, have you been screaming about that NO...because it's happening to the black child therefore it does not affect you & its not your problem.......JUST BE GREATFUL & SHUT UP!....COZ TRUST ME YOU HAVE NOT HAD IT BAD AT ALL!!!! BLACK PEOPLE HAVE HAD SINCE BIRTH BECAUSE OF APARTEID, NEVER HAD THE PRIVILAGES YOUR CHILDREN HAD, SO PLEASE STOP BEING PETTY, THERE ARE REAL DIFFICULT & HORRIFYING ISSUES OUT THERE THAT YOU WOULDNT SURVIVE A DAY IF YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH THEM. SO SHUT UP! OR JUMP ON A PLANE OR SHIP TO AMERICA OR WHEREVER YOU'LL FEEL COMFORTABLE & IN CONTROL.....
gareth22
GrahamJ
Now we are frozen in time and society is decaying quickly. It is time to get rid of that silly constitutional clause: "(5) Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair."
As long as someone, ANYONE, can decide what is 'fair' discrimination and what is not 'fair' discrimination, then this country is going nowhere. This is a crime against humanity.
The matric results confirm.
JorgenHus
TaniaSteyn
SuiGeneris
Posted 459 days agoHorus
Posted 459 days agoSuiGeneris
You must be the only one in the world who believes this !!!
Horus
Posted 459 days agoDuzula
@TL
Can you just close this comment stuff down so that we can just read NEWS only, cause if we are speaking your minds you just delete your comments
Gurdjieff
Posted 459 days agovatiekakie
Duzula
Posted 459 days agoWhat point are you trying to prove, now i just hope this information Bill can come sooner... AVUSa why did you allow people to comment but at the end you delete their comment this is not on... FREE the internet
PSG
They are proving a point that freedom of speech is selective :-).
Duzula
PSG
Government wants to pass the Protection of Information Act and they cry freedom of speech, freedom of the press yet they are the ones deleting our none racial posts that conform to the posting of comments guidelines.
How hypocritical :-).
Duzula
tell you what, I didn't like the Government Protection of Information Act but Now i just hope that it can Pass so that all the media including the TL can feel what we are feeling right NOW about deleting your comments...
@ TL
you can delete even this one so that you can prove your point!
letslisten
Posted 459 days agoAs to the skills of these Afrikaners you referring to the following:
It is a fact that MANY of the Pakistani & Indians and for that matter, African immigrants that are in America are there illegally, and those who are there legally have very little qualifications to write home about either.
And TL, your prayers for the information bill to become law is regrettable and proof of your total lack of common sense and intelligence.
America, the land of the free - should not entertain the wishes and the demands of people like yourself.
PSG
You posted "@TL & PSG - It is obvious from whence you came." I don't follow can you please unpack this for me?
letslisten
Posted 459 days agoletslisten
Posted 459 days agoPSG
I seriously don't follow what you wrote there. I'd rather ask than assume that I know what you mean or meant but if you don't want to elaborate than I don't undestand whay you would want to respond to my earlier post.
paulth82
Posted 459 days agoinkunzi
Posted 459 days agoAlso, they need to educate themselves. The unemployment rate among white S. Africans is around 9% where for black S.Africans is around 25%. Who's worse off in South Africa??
MissColtrane
paulth82
Posted 459 days agoSmeegen
Posted 459 days agoIf, as you say, whites own most of the wealth in SA, what happens if they do leave en masse?
30% of the population pays 80% of the income tax. The same income tax that pays for the grants that 15 million people live off in SA (Almost a third of the populace!).
Yes, it is true that the emerging black middle class is growing fast, but, fast enough to compensate for the loss of tax revenue if the whites left?
Yes, whites form only 8% of the population, so they aren't paying all the tax. That is a given. But the burden would have to be shifted to another demographic if they gave up their citizenship and residence in SA. Rest assured, they won't leave their money here for the state to spend. Companies would close. Jobs would be lost. Tax income would drop...
Today's white South African has to think around BBBEE. Look how many small business they are starting up in this country. They no longer want to grow them into large corporations, because once you employ more than 49 staff, you have to conform to AA/BEE.
And honestly, who wants to do business with government? I certainly don't. I prefer to actually get paid for the services I render.
Now let us consider for a moment this other silly idea... 'we will attack the whites and take what they have!'
Yeah, right... Historically, the whites in Africa, when attacked, have uprooted, and moved south, because theya ren't bellicose by nature. Many of them, now resident in SA, have nowhere left to go. They are not eligible to emigrate to Europe, etc. so they have to stay put. If you corner an animal, and poke at it with a stick, what happens? It will fight back.
Do you really want to start a racially-based conflict in SA? Once more, bombs in restaurants and churches, toxins/bacteria in water resevoirs...? Who will suffer most from that? Militants? No. The innocent peaceful people caught in the cross fire.
The idiots that believe taking by force is the answer is a tiny minority compared to the number that want a peaceful solution to the problems in SA. I back the latter, but don't poke me with a stick! I'll come out fighting.
Smeegen
I have a British passport, and offshore accounts.
inkunzi
you said:If, as you say, whites own most of the wealth in SA, what happens if they do leave en masse?
Look, the ones that make headlines are the ones that own very little wealth here. The real owners of wealth are staying put. They have investments they can't afford to just abandon. The ones that are leaving en masse are the ones I also say they can leave. A qualified actuary would not have a problem getting an American green card, believe me. These are just farm basses or mechanics who think they are special.
AlecC
Posted 458 days agoDon't blame that family. Whites have been sidelined and are not allowed to play a part in the running of the country and it's infrastructure.
Black-Moses
vatiekakie
Posted 458 days agomatlhabaEuric
Posted 458 days agoTo add to Vatiekakie's contention: if we as Africans cannot appraise ourselves of our true worth, we avail ourselves to Imperial domination. As a collective we need to understand that part our cause to humanity is the ability to understand the need for our different contributions towards a better South Africa, for instance we need land, funding, architects, project manager, bricklayer, rabble remover, and a cleaner to build and maintain a school to educate our children. without any of the mentioned persons you can't have the school.
we cannot prosper without the other, Coucasians should stop thinking they doing any person a favour by being in SA and equally Africans should stop thinking they don't need Coucasians.
Ultimate
Posted 458 days agoThe reality is that this trend will continue
Stuart Ferguson
Maxi
Posted 458 days agoYou are really spitting fire without looking at other aspects the current situations in South Africa. To start with, BEE like AA was not started in South Africa. The first implementation of Affirmative Action was in the United States in the year 1961. These policies would be implemented whether you like it. They address the imbalances caused by the past evil system, not to punish anyone.
Your comparison of the current situation in SA to that of Germany is totally unfounded.
If you can refer to the below current unemployment indications in SA you might need to recall your first comments:
Unemployment rate per race
White : 6,4 %
Indian : 10,1 %
Coloured : 22,5 %
Black/African : 29,5 %
Judging from above indicators, you will agree with me that whites are most benefiting from the current system. In addition, whites continue to receive better salaries and occupy better positions than blacks. So how do you explain this?
Maxi
I am not sure of your findings, but still the government compared to the private sector, employs a small fraction of people. Maybe only 18% percent if I am not mistaken.
I am not disputing the fact that poor people cannot send their many children to school. I was just making a wake up call to Spitfire that whites continue to have more privileges in the current society. He was talking whites experiencing the worst situation than that experience by holocaust victims. Do you agree with me or prefer to continue disagreeing with me?
darkie2
Posted 458 days agoGrahamJ
When there are 26500 white CAs and less than 100 BEE CAs, how does insisting I have a black CA help me when they are like hens teeth?
And THAT is a crime against humanity.
Spitfire
Posted 458 days agoMaxi
Are you for real? Are you currently living in South Africa? Can you explain to me how are young white people are punished by the current system? After giving you the above unemployment indications, which race is well off when it comes to employment?
Also can you explain to me how are whites business affected by BEE? According to latest findings, whites are still dominating in the business sector. We have an open market in SA, so I do not understand how a white owned business can be affected by BEE. It was proven recently that the major shareholders in the JSE continue to be whites.
So please I still do not understand how young white people are punished. I continue to see new white staff joining my company which is already dominated by white staff. The number of black staff is reducing. So I doubt if you are really living in SA or maybe you are sticking your head under the sand?
ComradeChe
Posted 458 days agogareth22
Posted 458 days agoThere IS therefore a basis to consider their allegations. Is that not enough evidence for Laumann and his ridiculous 'scholorly' statements?
I hope this issue brings forward the fact that people are being murdered.
There is no way you can justify this.
fromseattlewa
Posted 458 days agoI am ALSO ASHAMED of South Africa and as I am living in the USA will contact and support any South Africans seeking asylum in this country.
Maxi
fromseattlewa
Posted 458 days agoSapa | 04 October, 2011
fromseattlewa
Posted 458 days agoRead what Thabo Mbeki's brother has to say about the new SA.
Spitfire
Posted 458 days agoArgo
Posted 458 days ago@AlecC.
Moderator.................Oh and by the way. Why block AlecC from commenting on this site? Can we only express opinions that you agree with? Does the truth really bug you so much? Or don't you want people to discuss what really is happening in SA on this forum?
We have time and again asked very nicely that people should keep to the subject, no personal attacks on individuals, tribes or races, no hate speech. When you guys don't play ball, you leave us with only one option. MOD
Anti_Propaganda
Posted 458 days ago"If the people your firm seeks to represent are in any way victims of racism, it is, sadly, only a racism of their own making, in their own minds.
I agree 100%.
They caused it, let them suffer for it. One of life's greatest sayings and a way to live " DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" I say voetsek to all the other Afrikaners that think like this family as kudos to the professors and others that agree with them.
We need to better this country and by doing that I mean WE need to learn to live TOGETHER!!!! Even if that means cutting out the "bad apples" from our society.... The greater good is of omportance than a few insecure, irrational and unlearned indocrinated neandathal Afrikaner scum!!!
AMANDLA!!!