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Sat May 18 12:12:21 SAST 2013

Malema turns tables on ANC leadership

AMUKELANI CHAUKE and CHANDRÉ PRINCE | 17 November, 2011 00:36
Julius Malema. File photo.
Image by: LEBOHANG MASHILOANE

Julius Malema believes he has punched holes in the ANC's disciplinary case against him and has vowed to fight to the bitter end.

He challenged the ANC to fire him because, he said, he had no intention of resigning.

Last week the ANC's national disciplinary committee found Malema and his top executives guilty of contravening the party's constitution.

Malema's membership of the party was suspended for five years and his top executives got suspended sentences pending their appeal.

Yesterday, Malema and his executives turned the tables and accused senior ANC leaders of using the national disciplinary committee as a platform "to settle political scores", for "personal problems" and "to stifle debate".

They questioned the legitimacy of the hearings.

ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe and disciplinary committee chairman Derek Hanekom were singled out. Mantashe was accused of masterminding the charges against the youth league leadership; Hanekom of pursuing a political agenda.

"A decision to convict and sanction the ANC Youth League leadership was taken by the secretary-general, who made his intentions clear in all his statements."

Malema said that during the disciplinary hearings Hanekom had failed to control his temper.

He said the committee was convened "merely" to give his conviction legitimacy.

But the ANC yesterday rejected the claims and said issues raised by the youth league should be taken to its appeals committee.

Malema's accusations were made as the ANC leadership race is hotting up. Youth League structures are pushing behind the scenes for Zuma to be replaced by his deputy, Kgalema Motlanthe, and for their former president, Fikile Mbalula, to replace Mantashe as secretary-general next year.

In their defence yesterday, Malema and his executives said the ANC's national officials, led by Zuma, were not empowered by the party's constitution to institute disciplinary charges against them, and that they should have allowed the party's national executive committee to prefer the charges.

But the ANC yesterday said its constitution fully empowered its national officials to prefer charges against any member.

Malema said Hanekom had used an outdated youth league constitution to effect his removal from office.

He said a new constitution, which was amended at the youth league's national conference, in June, gives his national executive committee the right to subject a ruling party conviction to a youth league inquiry.

But senior ANC leaders who spoke to The Times rejected Malema's stance.

They said the constitutions of ANC organisations could not conflict with the constitution of the parent body.

"If we use [Malema's] logic it will mean that a magistrate's court can overrule the Constitutional Court. It cannot be like that. That amendment they made is invalid," said a senior party official last night.

Malema said that, despite his conviction, he will not give up the helm of the youth league. He said the ANC did not have the power to suspend him and he would appeal.

Malema questioned the composition of the national disciplinary committee, and accused Collins Chabane, Susan Shabangu and Hanekom of conflict of interest. He said they had expressed views against the youth league's campaigns for the nationalisation of mines and land expropriation.

Malema said Chabane refused to recuse himself from the committee despite having done so in respect of last year's disciplinary hearing. He said that the factors that prompted Chabane to recuse himself last year could not have changed.

"Hanekom is recorded as having publicly said that one of the policy positions of the ANC Youth League on expropriation of land without compensation will not happen as long as he is in the ANC," Malema said.

He warned that if ANC leaders were allowed to use the party's constitution to solve personal problems, then the party would be in danger of disintegrating.

Last night, the youth league said the possibility that Hanekom, Shabangu and Chabane used the national disciplinary committee to settle political scores and suppress dissent was very high.

As the battle between the ANC and its youth wing continues, ANC Gauteng chairman and Arts and Culture Minister Paul Mashatile yesterday conceded that the ruling party had "enormous" challenges.

Mashatile threw down the gauntlet, saying that the ANC was "going through a lot of challenges", and intimating that the organisation was at a crossroads.

Referring to the youth league's war with the ANC's leaders, Mashatile said Albert Luthuli would not have allowed such "shenanigans".

"He [Luthuli] would be the one going to young leaders to tell them to focus on the objectives of what the ANC set many years ago.

"There are a lot of new people in the organisation that still need to be taught the ways of the ANC," said Mashatile.

He warned that it was imperative that the ANC re-focus its energy on unity ahead of next year's centenary celebrations in January and the elective conference in Mangaung in December.

Malema said that, despite the verdicts against him, he would not give up his leadership of the youth league, and said the ANC had no power to suspend him. He said he would appeal his suspension.

"Resigning is not an option. I must be fired. It is not only me [who was charged] it was the entire leadership," he said.

Malema said his resignation would set a precedent for those who succeeded him, forcing them to resign if they were accused of making radical statements.

"So, to save many generations, we have to soldier on in defence of the autonomy of the youth league and its leadership.

"We are a radical and militant voice. It has not started with us, it started with the founding generation in 1944. When you want to destroy this youth league because you are irritated by Malema, then you are wrong. You are destroying the legacy of Nelson Mandela and OR Tambo.

"Why didn't Madiba resign even when he was in a difficult situation like that . 27 years in prison, five years of loitering in the streets. Why must I resign?

"We are fighting a political battle, not a personal battle. Let the enemies celebrate; their celebration will be short-lived. You will never destroy the radical politics of the ANC."

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Scribbles

Posted 548 days ago
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With Malema at the helm, the ANCYL stands for everything that we should avoid. He encourages the league to adopt the linear mentality of a soldier rather than the flexible mind of student or learner. And to make matters worse, Malema mixes this backward model for the youth with an impulsive radicalism. Representatives of the youth should be attempting to create an atmosphere of debate and thought rather than simple bullheadedness.
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JohannesModise

Posted 547 days ago
Lo11
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ShLace

Posted 547 days ago
" We are a radical and militant voice. It has not started with us, it started with the founding generation in 1944. When you want to destroy this youth league because you are irritated by Malema, then you are wrong. You are destroying the legacy of Nelson Mandela and OR Tambo".

Its been 67 years pleaaaase. Somebody, anybody, should teach this young man to count. Needless to say both Tambo and Mandela were meticulously educated and principled intellectual responding to a very 'radical and militant form' of oppression the whole world over. Jim Crow laws in the USA, and intense racist and violent laws in SA.

Yes Scribbles, the ANC his radicalism borders on ignorance. He's the Black version of the KKK; and if allowed to establish his rule, he'll soon be calling for enslavement and lynching of all White people.

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thathaguluva

Posted 547 days ago
Comrade Scribbles you should stick to your daily job as a scriber who scribbles. The flexible mind of student or learner as you eloquently put it has a platform where it can be achieved which is SASCO and not ANCYL. Amadla comrade
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ChickenRunner

Posted 547 days ago
THE ANC MEMBERS ARE OUT FRONT IN LEADING BY EXAMPLE - NO DISCIPLINE, NO MORALS, NO RESPONSIBILITY, NO CLUE, NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW...
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Scribbles

Posted 547 days ago
Thatthaguluva said, "Scribbles you should stick to your daily job as a scriber who scribbles."

No need for petty insults in lieu of a well thought-out counter.

Thatthaguluva said, "The flexible mind of student or learner as you eloquently put it has a platform where it can be achieved which is SASCO and not ANCYL."

This does not solve the issue of the YOUTH league's poor example for the YOUNG of South Africa, comrade. You've completely missed the point of my comment.
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AMS-Dammer

Posted 547 days ago
PLUMPY hasn't got a CLUE!

He thinks he is ontop..... but he is currently SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE PROVEBIAL BARREL!!!

His future is STUFFED.... his FINANCES are STUFFED... therefore his determination of holding onto his ANC MEMBERSHIP CARD is pushing the envelope a little to far... I'd say...

Julius... go into the FUNERAL BUSINESS..... because in the ANC's eyes.... YOU ARE DEAD MEAT!

THANK GOODNESS!

jack.daniels

Posted 548 days ago
Avatar
Malema still doesnt have plan-one - all he will do is steal to enrich himself
SA is destined to go the exact same route as Zimbabwe did with dumb Bob
None of these guys have any idea how to run a soup kitchen, let alone an
economy that already has plus 50% unemployment and rising - every baby
born after 2015 will never find a job in SA - ever - get the baby pill today
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BobbyJaan

Posted 548 days ago
Our company earmarked a US$122 Million investment for a new plant in South Africa. Thanks Malema, you have opened our boards eyes. We will do it now in Zambia.

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 548 days ago
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....This is exactly what a demagogue does, a rabble-rouser, with capacity and greed to carry out dubious deals and a stupid arrogance fueled by the back-patting of powerful cadres. This cadre has shown himself as loyal as a snake, and his backers should be very aware of it.....even Sexwale with all his power and riches..........Then again, within the (dis)organized largest crime syndicate in power, it is expected that any lieutenant dissatisfied with the piece of the cake he was given, prefers to fight for the whole cake.....Read the Mafia history......

amaKK

Posted 548 days ago
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...[Malema] challenged the ANC to fire him because, he said, he had no intention of resigning...

---

You have been suspended...relegated...banished...shoved aside. There's no reason for them to break any sweat firing you.

Take your punishment like the youth you claim to be - go sulk quietly in the corner.
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago
I am beginning to think that a proper evaluation by professionals might be necessary here. Such complete breakdown with reality and slippery demagogy is worrying.

Malema seems to have a covert Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality where in person, in tv studios or interviews he presents himself as the most reasonable, humble and courteous person, as a misunderstood or victimised genuine revolutionary - while in reality he has mastered the art of turning politics into a profitable business venture, he continues to fan the flames of intolerance, division, greed and destruction (just look at what he did to his own party!) and causing untold damages with his inflammatory statements or uninformed disastrous ideas. He can take a small grain of fairly reasonable truth and cover it with so many layers of twisted delusional demagogy in such subtle masterful way - that the end result becomes the most grotesque and ridiculous - yet useful to him - thing.

DotM

Posted 548 days ago
Avatar
Why can"t the journalists who write this drivel find something else to do? I don't even read the article, just the comments - this is sooooo yesterday's news. Are there no more stories in the country to tell? Is this the journo version of a quick cup of coffee? Have to earn a living, nothing to write about, oh yes Juju. Get over it all ready.

Biko-Lives

Posted 548 days ago
Avatar
We will never be sidetracked or distracted by those whose stomach are full with greedy white capitalists and monopoly money! We see right through this ploy that seeks to discredit and undermine the genuine legitimate agenda of achieving economic freedom spear-headed by our fearless leader JM! We are not suprised because our leader told us when we started this journey that this is going to be the mother of all battles, there will be blood and casualties along the way. But as the vangaurd of this revolution we will soldier on until we take back what is truely ours! Even the Son of Man died for the truth! We all know that the truth hurts but at some stage it needs to be shoved down the throughts of those who do not want to share! Amandla!! Viva Kgalema Monthlantle Viva!!
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ThePurplePimp

Posted 548 days ago
And the krill will resolve to tell the angels that planet x will come rolling in from the north side of Hitropocty and the fires from the snow ladem mountains will not melt the heart of the jedi that dwells in the ice palace down in the depts of hade. Viva oxetufre vviva
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Beelzebub

Posted 548 days ago
Oh yes, eleven lines of cliches and slogans; it could only be Biko-Lives. Will you ever come out with an original comment?
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
"We will never...." , always the first line of the ravings. Who is "we" dude. You and who?

Last line is the real issue, "want to share".

So this "revolutionary is nothing more than another one of the "Gimme" brigade. How about working for a living man. See there are many others all around you who do that and get on very well. Look man, its an option. Otherwise just be honest and say;

"We will never work!"
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Biko-Lives

Posted 548 days ago
"We" the 5000 in good standing and still growing members of the ANCYL who are 100% behind our comrade President!
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UDFSupporter

Posted 548 days ago
As your Afrikaner friends will rightly say : "BIko- Lives is the biggest box in the land".
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mmba

Posted 548 days ago
So you will only be sidetracked by those pseudo revolutionaries whose stomachs are filled with money stolen from the selfsame poor?
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
Get with the program Biko.

The revolution happened 17 years ago - the ANC won the day and has been firmly in control since then.

Perhaps instead of spending your time ranting on about how you intend to destroy, maim, pillage and steal, you and your brethren would be better off showing some initiative, getting off your a$$, and making a positive contribution to the country and the economy...
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ChwamaMahlulo

Posted 548 days ago
@ Biko-Lives. You are a true South African and yet you understand the politics of this country fairly well, not these morons who pretend to be genuine in fighting Juju for their selfish agenda and also trying to recruit for the DA simply because they know that masses of our African origin do not have access to internet to voice their support for this tireless strong leader of the ANCYL. We.ll soldier on by mobilising the youth more a specially the have nots who do not want to die wondering what happened to their voting for freedom in this wonderful motherland. Let all the trators of our strugle be exposed and be sent back to their handlers to find out what went wrong in their brain washing ways of accumulating wealth. the gloves are off and all the defenders of trueth and equal rights will merge to defeat all these evel forces and bloody agents. Viva ANCYL Viva. Phambili nomzabalazo wokoxutha ilizwe lethu emaseleni phambili.
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
ChwamaMahlulo
You would be helping the youth more if you helped them get jobs, and a better education. You are not helping them with negative, dsetructive, pointless causes.
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Truth-Speaker

Posted 548 days ago
Biko-Lives, you are a true son of the soil. My blood is flowing with the stripes that were won by our fathers and mothers who were killed by the very people who are against your comments. I'm an ANCYL and ANC member, I'm an African, I must fight for the emancipation of my people. If we are attacked, we will use the shield of our ANC badge and if we retaliate, we will use the very spear that symbolises are strides to take back, keep and apply our logic. Arrogant "You know whos" who seem to be attacking everything that symbolises a black man's sentiments of a progressive South Africa are hiding behind web pages and writing divisive comments from their iphones. Biko-Lives, as long as there are people like you and me, ANC will never ever be defeated. TUPAC said "WE MIGHT FIGHT AMONG EACH OTHER, BUT I PROMISE YOU THIS; WE'LL TEAR THE ROOF OFF IF YOU TRY TO GET ONE OF US" This applies to our ANCYL and ANC. Amandla comrade. Its either you are with us or against us, you can't be inbetween. VIVA ANC and ANCYL VIVA.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 548 days ago
@ truth-speaker

''''''''You know whos" who seem to be attacking everything that symbolises a black man's sentiments of a progressive South Africa are hiding behind web pages and writing divisive comments from their iphones.

==========================

You have effectively rendered your own post null and void, because you are doing exactly what you are accusing the ''you know whos'' of......

NOT very sharp !!!!!!!
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buddi

Posted 548 days ago
@Truth-Speaker
"WE MIGHT FIGHT AMONG EACH OTHER, BUT I PROMISE YOU THIS; WE'LL TEAR THE ROOF OFF IF YOU TRY TO GET ONE OF US" This applies to our ANCYL and ANC.

Doesn't seem to be working for you so well at the moment. While you are 'tearing the roof off each other' the people of this country are watching and learning. Maybe you'll get a surprise at the end of it.
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FerdinandBerkhof

Posted 548 days ago
Could you please stop your empty, outdated, fake revolutionary rhetoric and grow up...
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Abdou_LahadToure

Posted 548 days ago
You`re right. We must never live our economy to the free markets. Free markets means freedom for corporations to exploit whom and what they want, where they want, and how they want. Just as the illusion of growth and fiction of finance has made the economy volatile and unpredictable. The idea of nationalizing the mines are not going anyway. Education alone is not enough to redress the economic injustice in South Africa. We need a fair share of everything. We have to preached it like the Gospel to community.
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BobbyBob

Posted 547 days ago
Truth speaker are you quoting a guy from Brooklynn NY as gospel ? Eish!
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Earthian

Posted 546 days ago
Ah, Biko-Lives. Or, more accurately, 1950s-Ideology-Lives.

I half-suspect B-L is a bot.

nkosipeter

Posted 548 days ago
Avatar
Winnie must speak up and come to Malema's defence if she truly believes he is a future leader.
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
Winnie? She's not exactly an achiever?
Why should we believe anything she says?
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Truth-Speaker

Posted 548 days ago
Bobbybob, what do you know about Winnie Mandela? What do you know about the amount of struggle and hardships she gave to the living black man in this country? You are just a divisive element that seeks to undermine our heroes. Just keep quite and have a mentos to suppress bad breath, rather than speak such horrible things. Name one white man who advocated the freedom of black people and white people living together in harmony in this country. You know nothing, so just keep quite.
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buddi

Posted 548 days ago
@Truth Speaker
And the ones she didn't like, she just got rid of.
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Stompie_se_Paai

Posted 547 days ago

...Winnie: child-killer, rebel without a Xhosa, Mugger of the nation, the iron lady ...ironing for Mrs Botha.
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Earthian

Posted 546 days ago
@Truth Speaker

Seriously? You want one white man who spoke of justice, of blacks and white living together in harmony? Just one? There are plenty. PLENTY. Joe Slovo. Rowley Arenstein. Bram Fischer, Frederick Van Zyl Slabbert, etc etc et al and so on.

I understand it's tempting to indulge in race-baiting when it's being done to you, but really, the moral high ground is much better, plus it has a nice view.

Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
Avatar
The media has created a monster by giving this unemployed high school dropout free publicity that he could never have purchased. This has potentially cost the country billions in lost investments and the possibility of a Moodies downgrade which in turn will increase government funding costs by billions. This funding is required to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure. The Family Charity Trust Fund puppy has absolutly zero understanding of economics and relies on lunatic fringe outdated manuscripts and inspiration from the likes of Mugabe, Chavez and his dead buddy Kadafi, guarenteed to destroy growth, jobs and the economy at large. He is a liability the country can no longer afford. MALEMA, YOU ARE FIRED !!!
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Howzit Investor44?

Please note that I'm no Mr Malema's fan, you are saying that we have lost billions in investments due to him can you please elaborate on that?

Please give examples of such potential investments that we have lost.



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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago
Morning PSG,

Do you in your opinion think that the persistent talks or suggestions or the mere possibility for nationalisation and expropriation without compensation:

A. Do no affect the business climate or discourage investment (local and foreign) at all?

B. Improve business climate and encourage investment (local and foreign)?

C. Worsen business climate and confidence, and discourage investment (local and foreign)?

in case of C. - Do you think this is something that can be measured in absolute terms, and supported by concrete facts - and if yes - what exactly? If no - what is the meaning of your original question?
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ThePurplePimp

Posted 548 days ago
Morning PSG mmmmmm DUH!!!!
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Good morning Florence :-).

All I want are facts :-).

My question is a simple on. A statement was made that we have lost billions of well needed investment cause of Mr Malema and my question was please give me examples of such investments that we have lost due to Mr Malema.

For example, all that I'm looking for is due to Mr Malema’s nationalization talks well company X pulled out of SA or company Y is taking it’s RXb investment somewhere else. This is all I’m looking for rather than speculations.

To counteract your argument/s, the Oppernheimers sold their stake to Anglo American recently. What says you to that? Isn't that still investment?

Anglo American still saw it fit to buy that 40% under the nationalization talk :-).
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@ThePurplePimp, good morning to you too TPP :-).

How are you this morning?
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Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
PSG: Sure. 1. first of all, SA borrows billions of Dollars from overseas investors every year to make up the budget deficit i.e. shortfall of state expenses against tax collection. The interest rate on these loans (Bonds) is determined by the country credit rating. This rating has been put on a downgrade watch by the ratings agency Moodys at least party due to the ANCYL. When this happens, the cost of borrowing for the country increases by millions, if not billions. By the way, Maleam has thretened these same kind foreign investors with nationalising their assets without compensation. Talking about biting the hand that feeds you !
2. There are countless mining, agricultural and manufacturing projects which can create growth and jobs have been indefinatly put on hold and/or moved to other countries, including African countries where there is more certaintly in terms of economic policy. This has definatly cost the country countless bilions and many thousands of jobs.
3. Bear in mind the debate is around differences in economic policy - remove the individuals involved. SA must choose between economic policies, proven the world round, devised by highly specilised and qualified economists; and the alternative - An economic philosophy by an unemployed high school dropout, motivated by Mugabe, Chavez and Kadafi, whose lunatic fringe economic guidence is GUARENTEED to cause a MASSIVE collapse in the SA economy, increasing joblessness and poverty al la Zimbabwe.
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago

A, B or C, PSG?
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Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
Some empirical evidence for PSG (there is plenty more).

Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) is a pre-requisite for growth and job creation. FDI is about the entry into the economy of a bundle of resources, of which some is money, but one must consider skills, technology, business models, management capabilities, new products and new processes too. In my view, these are much more important for long-term economic growth than dollar value

1. South Africa's foreign direct investment (FDI) inflows has dropped by 70% in 2010 when compared with 2009, according to Professor Stephen Gelb of the University of Johannesburg. 2011 figures are even worse.

2. In 2010, South Africa received only 2.8% of the total of Africa's FDI - i.e. Investors are diverting investment to other African countries that are more investor friendly. That is why NIGERIA is set to overtake SA in terms of GDP by 2013 !!

3. This means we did not share in the rise of FDI inflows experienced by other developing economies in Asia and Latin America."

4. South Africa had received about $1.553-billion in FDI in 2010, coming in at 69th in the world and at a level amounting to only one sixth of its peak, recorded in the country in 2008

5. The index shows how much FDI a country received as a percentage of its gross domestic product (GDP). In this respect, South Africa came in at 128th in the world in 2010, directly behind Burkina Faso -- so this is a bit disappointing

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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Thank you Investor44. You seem like an economist :-).

I hear what you are saying and thank you for engaging with me in such a good way.

1. I read from one of the business newspapers that another rating agency kept our rating neutral now my question would be why would be why would professionals within the same industry come to two totally different conclusions?

2. I might seem to be playing hard ball but please give me examples of such projects?

3. The world is in a mess because of the very same well educated specialized and well qualified economists .
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@ Florence I thought my Oppeheimer argument asnwered your question :-).

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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Thank you for the crash course and I must say that as a technical person person am getting infromed a lot. Thank you :-).

I just did a quick googling and found the following.

I'm not sure whether to believe your stats or what's contained in the article to the link below.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_received_FDI

This link tells me that the drop in FDI from 2009 to 2010 was round about 10.8%. How do you get to 70%?

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Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
PSG: I am not an economist. The empirical research is freely available to any man in the street with the time and inclination to do the required research. Your request for specific examples is akin to Mugabe asking the same question of me. The evidence is in the FDI figures. We will never know the full extent of missed opportunities any more than Mugabe can know the full extent of missed opportunities in his own country. These investment descisions are made in boardrooms around the world where capital acclocation is decided on the basis of various variables including policy certainty and stability and investor friendliness - something SA cannot offer as long as there is a percieved threat that the country is going to commit economic suicide by entertaining the lunatic fringe policies of some unemplyed high school dropout inspired by Mugabe and Chavez and who is morivated by self-promotion of himself and his cronies who have highjacked a once great organisation and transformed it into an extremist self promotional vehcle of economic destruction. Mugabe still has his supporters and Malema will still have his...the sane man can only shake his head and wonder why.
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Rightway

Posted 548 days ago
PSG you must be having a blonde moment. We have lost investment period. Even one transaction is one too many. We need investor friendly policies to the West if we are to succeed as a nation in a continent of failed states.
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Ok my man. The thing is when it comes to such issues doing research and trying to analyse the data is very very difficult as not all of us are subject matter experts or have the same understanding of such complicated matters hence when one gets an opportunity to learn from those in the know how I take full advantage of it.

I’m not entertaining Mr Malema’s talk coz I’m against it. All I’m doing is inform myself. Saying that he’s an uneducated wara wara what what doesn’t destruct him from shouting on top of his voice and calling for nationalization coz the world is in this economic mess because of the well educated economists :-).

It seems that most countries’ FDI figures when compared to the previous year’s ones are not that good and that could be largely due to the economic climate currently playing itself out.

In our case it could be that plus what Mr Malema has been saying. Just like you nicely put it, we’ll never know until we have concrete proof from those that have diverted their investments away from SA why they did it :-).
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Rightway. How are you?

Ha ha ha!!! Nah I'm having a d@rkie moment...oops Lindiwe Mazibuko has a problem with that term :-).

All I'm looking for are facts that link what Mr Malema said and the lost investments that everyone is talking about.

If I may ask why should our economic policies be particularly friendly to the West?
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago
" PSG
Posted 54 minutes ago
@ Florence I thought my Oppeheimer argument asnwered your question :-). "

Eish! A man who won't give a straight answer to a straight question!
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago
@ Investor44 - With PSG you need to know that after a seemingly innocent or even flattering comment - a banana peel directly follows which will send you running in circles for the rest of the day ;-P
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Razzo

Posted 548 days ago
PSG.....glad to see that there are people who are sober minded enough to sift through the rhetoric and seek genuine answers and facts not just hear say and emotive talk. Can i also point out that I am also not a Malema Fan nor a Malema basher but would rather like to engage on what he says rather than his personality.......I must hasten to add that he reads rather well for a "high school drop-out" (noted in yesterdays press briefing by himself and the YL).

I just wanted to point out to the "economists and statisticians" this exctract from "businessday" front page: "International Monetary Fund agrees with Treasury that risk of "populist pressures" is overstated and endorses government’s countercyclical fiscal policy"........I think the important word there being "overstated". The article further states: "The International Monetary Fund (IMF) does not share the view of ratings agency Moody’s that there is a significant risk that state spending will spiral out of control and raise SA’s debt burden to unsustainable levels".

I think its clear to see that those who are accusing Juju of Populist behaviour are themselves inadvertently (sp) becoming populists themselves......"its kinda like the kettle calling the pot black".....isnt it?

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Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
PSG: Just the fact that you ask why any country needs investor friendly policies is a damnation of our education system and one of the reasons why the country is being left behind economically by other emerging market countries and even other African countries. Any country must have investor friendly policies, not just to the WEST but to the EAST, NORTH, SOUTH and even AFRICAN countries. For the simple reason that investor friendly policies create investment, growth and jobs, as has happened in other countries like China, Brazil, Singapore and the like. trying to explain simple things to people that have absolutly no common sense is frustrating and an eye-opener as to why Mugabe and Malema have so many blind ignorant followers who will and have followed them over the cliff onto the rocks below without questioning them as to why they are following this suicidal route. Every African , black, white, brown, pink and yellow should spend a year overseas travelling to see how the real world operates and to open thier eyes. SA can and will be the greates nation on earth and we should not let that dream be destroyed by false profits bearing fake gifts and promises. There is no replacement for hard work and good education.
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@ Nightingale Ha ha ha!!!

Yah right Florence you clever voter you :-).

For me not to slip in a banana pill, please give me air tight answers that don’t allow me to peep through the window and slip in that banana pill :-).
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Investor44, My man my question was directed at Rightway who said that our economic policies should be friendly to the West.

Don’t you find anything strange with that statement? If it is friendly to the West what about our other trade partners?

My question was why should it be friendly to the West not investor friendly. I think you clearly missed why I asked my question.

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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Seeing that I don't have common sense, I'd stop engaging with you and save you all the frustration of trying to explain simple things and let you engage with like people.

Thank you :-).
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Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
According to Engineering News, a reputable SA publication 17 Jan 2011 :

Despite foreign direct investment (FDI) flows to developing economies having risen by an estimated 10% in 2010 when compared with 2009 figures, a new report estimates that FDI inflows into South Africa fell by a material 77,9% over the same period,
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Sure Razzo my man.

I read and when I don't understand I than ask questions.
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nomakanjaane

Posted 547 days ago
eish PSG - economics is politics by people who fear the vote. just religion, law and rating agency or publications or research . needless to say the IMF is also a political institution !!!! hahahahahaaa
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andy.turner

Posted 547 days ago
@Razzo - He reads well for a high school dropout??? When I was at school, you couldn't pass Std2 without being able to read well!
Nice to know you set high standards for your leaders
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Rightway

Posted 547 days ago
PSG i said investor friendly to the West for two reasons:

1.They are 70% of the world economy! It therefore makes logical sense to link with giants

2.They are more sensitive to Dictators like Mugabe and Malema then China. So we would live in a decent country if the West like us, as the Chinese do not care about oppressive regimes etc.
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PSG

Posted 547 days ago
@Rightway - they might be 70% of the world’s economy but if we do least of our trading with them why should our economic policy favor them?

From where I’m seated, China, USA, UK and India are our top four trading partners and very soon other emerging economies will feature strongly on that list, this tells me that our economic policy should be as neutral as possible and encourage investment from all fronts.

China doesn’t care about oppressive regimes as much as some of the Western countries do not care about them either. eE.g. France, it lead the bombings in Libya and finally it has come out saying that it would like to be one of the front runners for oil deals when the new regime starts doing business, so much for caring.

Thespear

Posted 548 days ago
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Those who came from exile cannot dictate to the inziles on whether the ANCYL is autonomous or not, this issue was dealt with in 1991 and they lost, the understanding of ANCYL with Zuma 's version is disturbing and borders around dictatorship.

ANCYL in exile was a political desk but we denied this, and now people are using their former commander to dictate this to the ANCYL, the ANCYL should soldier on as this issue cannot be dealt with by Hanekom and crew but ANC congresss, this is a constitutional issue, we need to find out from the ANC when did the word autonomous change, as former youth leagque, members, I guess those who hate Malema and see this as a malema issue, or ill-discpline will help the situation by just shutting-up, or asked to be educated in ANC policies than resorting to unnecesssary name calling, as its clearf they know not what they are talking about.

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ThePurplePimp

Posted 548 days ago
Amazing how sophisticated these ANCYL come out when arguing about why Malema should not have been charged or suspended. Yet on policy they are very simple. Hate whites, hate coloreds, Hate indians ,cockroaches, tea ladies, viva, women enjoy rape, take this, take that. purplre suits, sushi, mauritius, blue label.
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
I dont see the relevance of what you're excited about. Its irrelevant.

ANCYL bears the name ANC, you understand. If you dont want to be ANC, call yourselves something else and good luck!
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Truth-Speaker

Posted 548 days ago
Once again our resident racists, Purple pimp and BObbybob strikes again and yet they have lost the logic behind the said comments. Wow, can 2 people be so dull that they can't see beyond their hatred of malema and fuel the progressive mindset of fellow South Africans. My advise, move to Orania and stay there or move to the UK and US.

lamelooser

Posted 548 days ago
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Why is he sweating like that?
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
It's not the sweat , it's the distant hollow stare that's spooky, bit like idi amin.

BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
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Malema is yestredays news. He is an irrelevant irritant at best today.
Cover something else.....

lamelooser

Posted 548 days ago
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And what's with the ill-fitting beret?

Is it a neat substitute for hair?
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
No it's a Che guevara hat, hahahaha....

But revolutionaries look mean and lean, not fat and portly. They wear basic clothes, like T shirts , jeans and cheap watches, not designer gear and R 250 000 watches!

But we should not tell him this, as he told the BBC, "you know nothing about revolution !", hahahahaha.

MisterWendal

Posted 548 days ago
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Delusions of grandeur - I tell you!

Foolius - just because you will successfully bring the ANCYL to it's knees, is no guarantee that you can successfully bring the ANC to it's knees.
(But keep trying anyway!)

Jonos

Posted 548 days ago
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Does everything this divisive, destructive fool say deserve to be your lead story? The Times, you are feeding anarchy. Who's paying you?
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ThePurplePimp

Posted 548 days ago
A company contracted to Times Live came to me and offered the company advertising space at an exhorbitant cost. As a times reader online I immediately said no as I could not recall 1 time that i had read any of the advertising in times live. They gave me stats on how many readers go online to TL and said my ad would be viewed so many times.So the whole point of keeping the Puple pimp on front news is to get as many readers logged on so they can up there CLICKS onto the site to sell adverting. The purple Pimp does this for them. It up s readership

Thespear

Posted 548 days ago
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It is quite opportunistic for the ANC to reject the claims that the decision was pre-determined.
We all know through the media that certain leaders within the ANC wanted a hasher sentence for Malema,
and it was reported that some want him expelled and others want him suspended for five years, which
we all know was true, as Hanekom, ruled indeed on 5 years as reported by the media.

Rejecting the claims today wont change the fact that the media, was well informed through the trial, and
ther prediction came to reality on the 10/11/11. Suprising to us, even the ANCYL leadership knew through the media that they will be charged,
how can this be divorced from each other, let those who have brains, think, and those who habors hate follow without thinking.

It is a fact that the decision was widely expected, and members closer to the disciplinery committee has made this clear even before the charges were tabled.

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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
You're off-beam again.

Even I knew ( and I suspect many others also) looong before the media reported on it that a disciplinary hearing would be held. You cant have irresponsible hotheads ruining the country's reputation and denying people jobs and education. You have to stop it. That's the responsible thing to do.

As for the sentence, I knew that too. You cant have one hearing, with a suspended sentence and the culprit commits the same crime without consequences. It's like a criminal getting a suspended sentence and committing crime again.

.

Rightway

Posted 548 days ago
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Malema is finished. This is his last rant and raves on his soap box. I understood before why the press needed to let us know very thought of this last century man. Now that he is irrelevant to current leadership lets not here every sound bite he makes. I am actually cross at myself for listening to his many previous bitter, hate filled Marxist dellusionary speeches. Now that he is
history for 5 years.

BlackTsunami

Posted 548 days ago
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That is the Juju I know. Fearless, and speaking truth to power irrespective of who is at the receiving end. Defeat is not an option, victory is guranteed. We will press on - we on the brink of making history.
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mmba

Posted 548 days ago
I too would be fearless and speak truth to power, if I could hijack funds meant to help the poor and build myself an ubermansion with it.
If I could order policemen to escort me to the airport, I would speak truth to power in my sleep.
I could even do it blindfolded and all my hands tied behind my back.
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Joe-Higgins

Posted 548 days ago
'we on the brink of making history'

Nope...you are on the brink of becoming destructive history!
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buddi

Posted 548 days ago
@BlackTsunami
I wouldn't start celebrating yet.
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BlackTsunami

Posted 548 days ago
Destructive only to those who are on the way of progress.
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BlackTsunami

Posted 548 days ago
@buddi, certainly, if you are not confident of yourself and the justness of your cause, you will not start celebrating. But we are very confident

Access

Posted 548 days ago
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its funny how malema makes me think if the inverse version of eugene terreblanch with all his ranting and raving.

he even has his little flock following him and defending his actions and reasoning.

didnt end too well for e.t. eventually. :-/

well, they say energy cannot be destroyed, only converted from one form to another.

meh. go figure

ooooooooo

Posted 548 days ago
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I was wrong all the time. I thought the ANC was the main body and the ANCYL was a subset of the main body. My apologies I can now clearly see it is the other way around. Show you how ignorant I was.
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MisterWendal

Posted 548 days ago
The tail wags the dog here in South Africa - and quite violently as well!
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
LoL !!! frik howzit mate?? you were right all along EXCEPT that the Emperor Malema is in his desperation trying to change the rules. one day he is an anc member the next day he is a member of an independant body yadda yadda yadda. i cant wait to read his research paper to be submitted for his UNISA studies - but worst still, i dont envy those who try and mark/assess his school work

Biko-Lives

Posted 548 days ago
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"IMF rejects Moody’s warning on SA spending" says the headline on today's Business Day! But none of your reactionary media houses has publisised that! The myth that 'the talks of nationalisation is scaring away investors' only exists as a figment of imagination of those who do not want to share in this country! Malema is still the only voice of the voiceless and we will never abonden him in favour of those who are building bunkers in the rural and poor outskirts of KZN to prove his kind!
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
It's reported all over the media. D7987 head!
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Earthian

Posted 546 days ago
Howdy, Biko-Bot-Lives.

You shouldn't abandon Malema in favour of those building bunkers in KZN.

After all, he's reported to be building his very own bunker in his new mansion right here in Sandton.

Viva! Wait, I'm confused about how this revolutionary thing works. Is it "do what I say, not do what I do"?

samsam

Posted 548 days ago
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Investor44
Posted 1 minutes ago

PSG
Posted 12 minutes ago


Let me intervene in your argument, the fact of the matter is we need to understand the priorities of the ruling govt of the ANC and its allies.

One of the priorities is job creation the remaining five I wont duel on them, what does that mean it means we need to create jobs for black ownership through BEE, that is supported by the money injected to ensure this priority is a success, R10b in that regard.

What Investor44 is analysing, it is his own perception far away what from the ruling partys priorities, not that the ruling party is against FDI not at all , but we need to ensure there is slide improvement of black ownership in JSE.

That is a reason why Thabo Mbeki was criticised for promoting FDIs yet people were nt employed, foreign investors are here to collect profit and we cannot allow our country to be colonised economically.

The question might be how do we create jobs locally, by means of rural development, agriculture, EPWP etc

Investor44 must stop being an agent for west who will come here to exploit our resources, instead we need our black professionals to take initiatives in creating those jobs.


I hope Investors44 should familiarise himself well with the ANCs priorities first and understand where this country is heading and look at the progress made since took over from apartheid regime

PSG

Posted 548 days ago
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@Rightway. How are you?

Ha ha ha!!! Nah I'm having a d@rkie moment...oops Lindiwe Mazibuko has a problem with that term :-).

All I'm looking for are facts that link what Mr Malema said and the lost investments that everyone is talking about.

If I may ask why should our economic policies be particularly friendly to the West?
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BobbyBob

Posted 548 days ago
Man there is so much ignorance about basic economic concepts. Truth is economic policies should be such that they attract capital to create jobs etc... Capital knows no boundaries. West, East doesn't matter.

Just be investor friendly.
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
"If I may ask why should our economic policies be particularly friendly to the West?"

Thats like owning a shop and asking why you should open the doors to the public... seriously.
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Holla Bobby, true that they should be investor friendly to friendly to the West only as Rightway wnts them to be.

Staren, Bobby put it noicely that our economic policies should be investor friendly not friendly to a certain group only :-). Hope that clears it.
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
Indeed, couldn't agree more, but unfortunately we don't have the luxury of deciding who will or wont invest in our country - the reality is that the majority of foreign investment in this country originates from the West...
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Staren, "the reality is that the majority of foreign investment in this country originates from the West..."

Seeing that the West is in a lot of trouble financially and has been for sometime, your statement could shed some light as to why our FDIs have declined so much.
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Rightway

Posted 547 days ago
PSG i said investor friendly to the West for two reasons:

1.They are 70% of the world economy! It therefore makes logical sense to link with giants.

2.They are more sensitive to Dictators like Mugabe and Malema then China. So we would live in a decent country if the West like us, as the Chinese do not care about oppressive regimes etc.

BokFan

Posted 548 days ago
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"Hark the herald angles sing
the coming of the new born King"

Round about now I dont think the anc wants to hear too many carols about the coming of Jesus.


BokFan

Posted 548 days ago
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Why is Mzansi staring to smell like Charles Taylor's Liberia.

Hola PSG. I see the economic argument is supposedly all about ideology again. i would have thought that the followers self defeating passion for dogma would have evaporated while watching the chinese wipe their bums on Marx, Lenin and Mao.

I am very much amazed though that intelligent folks can still fall for the Yob Leagues con tricks. Its almost as if they cant see the pictures of catastrophe before their very eyes.

But I guess these visions of an apocalypse are part of our culture. Nonguase also promised the end of the white man and we know where that ended.

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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Holla Player 23, I'm not falling for Julius's nationalization talk. All I asked were facts to accompany claims that what he said about nationalization has driven investment away as people having been saying that he has driven investments away.

I've always been saying that I'm against nationalization.

I guess my question makes people to cloud their judgement just like it is the case when one is against the DA certain people will jump to a conclusion that you support the ANC vice versa.

All I'm after are facts period :-).
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
PSG, I dont facts are needed here, as much as foresight, as the consequences of Malema's action wont be evident on such a short term.

If you were planning on investing R100 million for example, in a mining enterprise in a particular country, and calls were made in that country for 60% of your investment to be nationalised, or land to be forcibly reclaimed without compensation, how keen do you think you would be continue with your planned investment?
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Staren, facts are needed my man to substantiate people’s claims.

Anglo American just invested a further $5.1b by acquiring the Oppenheimer stake. Not so long ago an Australian company.

Walmart investment.

These are all investments taking place as we speak under the nationalization talk. Government Ministers like Trevor Manuel have come out and said that there is no money to nationalize mines, the Deputy Pres went to the UK and echoed the same message.


I’ve always said that as long as there is a quick buck to be made, investors will continue investing.
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
holla de bokkke and PSG mfana - kunjani e thawini? look, malema is driving a noble cause except that he is heavily discredited. if we can get a clean person to champion economic freedom then the whole country would be behind that person. unfortunately no one in the current spotlight can do that for us for now. if nkosazana zuma, tito mboweni, trevor manuel, joel , and like minded leaders can be given a chance - this country might become something of a heaven
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Razzo

Posted 548 days ago
PSG....People here have Malemaphobia and dont subscribe to facts......as seen from some comments above. The East is the new West and hence the SA Govt is busy courting them....infact so is Barack Obama. I remember making this assertion on this forum a few months ago and i was told that we should not go to the east coz of human rights issues there......look now, the "western masters" have ditched their humans rights rhetoric.......
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Noms, holla mfana.

That's true.

Mfana ngikwesaMsholozi isigodi aka Pretoria.

I'll be down eThawini next weekend :-).
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
Well unfortunately there is no way of quantifying or identifying how many people chose NOT to do something, or how many people hold a particular mindset.

For example, its easy to tell how many people purchased something from a particular shop - look at the sales volumes. But how do you identify and quantify how many people were discouraged from entering the shop and making a purchase because the shop looked dirty inside or didn't have a great selection to choose from?? You cant. Hence the need for foresight and the understanding that every single aspect of our existence is governed by the principle of cause-and-effect.

Look, the reality is that any intelligent, diligent, investor who have may thought about investing either in property or mining in SA in the upcoming future, would have at the very LEAST, thought twice about it.

As an intelligent person, can you not say that if you were a foreigner thinking of potentially investing in our mining industry in the near future, that you too would not be hesitant if calls were made to Nationalise 60% of the industry?
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
PSG - like i said i honestly dont think the aurguement that seeks to entrench the current form of poverty of wealth inequality is sustainable. mbeki created super billionaires in his time, zuma has done so within his short time, mandela did the same (except that it was white people then). so why should i pay so much tax to make a few rich? economic freedom in my lifetime - taking over the mines should go hand in hand with taking wine farms and other assets from tokyo malema lekota and motsepe - they all bankrupted the Land Bank to fund those assets stealing
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Staren, The higher the risk the greater the returns. That’s how most investors see the world of investment. If Africa is as we are made a doomed continent why are companies from other continents still investing in Africa and investments from certain countries like Australia etc keep going higher and higher?

I was shocked at the number of companies queuing in Zimbabwe MTN, Anglo America, Telkom, etc yet the Zim Government’s policy is that any company in Zimbabwe needs to be 51% owned by locals this includes multinationals.

Like a responsible person I’ll exercise caution but that doesn’t mean that the risk will completely put me off just like I have shown with examples given above how companies are keen on doing business in risky terrains like Zim :-).
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Noms that's true mfana.

Mina my man to take over would be Cyril Ramaphosa he has proven himself as a principled leader both in society and in business.

That's not to say that he doesn't have his fault he does just like all of us do.
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
PSG, yes, but whereas you might simply exercise caution, other investors may be detracted completely...

The one point on where you are wrong though, is the assertion that the higher the risk, the higher the return. This only applies to certain situations, and where conditions are conducive to a favourable return.

What kind of a return do think MacDonalds would see on their investment, for example, if they had to open an outlet in central Baghdad or rural Afghanistan?
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
eish - PSG. keep far away from the BEE people. they all have their hands in some dirty thing - those that seem clean have either been very good in buying positive meadia coverage (which is happening everyday despite all round denials) or they have been very generous to those in possession of info about them. and besides all that - i dont think mr Ramaphosa would want to make me and you rich - simply because the system that made him rich does not allow that
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
That’s true others might be detracted but others might not be. The ration might be very interesting.


Maybe I should have said in general , the higher the high return. Yes it applies to certain situations and the conditions might not be conducive to a favourable return but you make them to be conducive e.g. MTN made it in Nigeria and is now milking it yet Vodacom and Telkom burnt their fingers.

ROTFLMAO, I don’t even waste my money on their food they serve skinny chips LOL!!! I like mine the old way.
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago

... did someone just mention skinny chips..? ;-P
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
@Noms, LOL, see I hear you my man and would listen to your advice.

Mfethu any news from Sox and Mthizolo?

These two wherever they are eish kuyafiwa :-).


The last time I heard from Mthizolo was when he was accompanying BWL eyohlala kumattress eVentersdorp "tongue-in-cheek" :-).
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Yes Florence :-).

Go and get them with your chicken foldover and make Mr Cyril Ramaphosa even more richer than he is today :-p.
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
PSG - nothing from the 2 brothers. umThizozo wathi he is busy in rural mpumalanga doing some IT/engineering consulting. i guess after voting DA they were kicked out of this world :) still cant understand why they would vote DA - a party that patronises black people so much. they have turned lindiwe mazibuko into a movie star - purely on the basis that she is the type of black that share and fits their fantasy of blackness.
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PSG

Posted 548 days ago
Noms - Weeing that atleast uWonder was getting socks as bribes to vote for iDA, I thought that maybe uMthizolo was the one who got the Western Cape communications tender :-).
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nightingale

Posted 548 days ago
@ PSG - it sounds you are being jealous of the success of an african? Are you undermining the african agenda here? ;-P

With every single thing you buy - you make someone richer. Do you have a problem with that?
And I'd much rather make someone like Ramaphosa (who appears to be a sane, successful and intelligent individual) richer than someone like Malema.
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PSG

Posted 547 days ago
@Florence - Nah I don't have a problem at all you know me very well but I know that you were pulling my leg there :-).

I just had a nice plate of food on the side of the road with nice meat coz I know that when I get home it's going to be greens all the way as if I'm a rabbit :-).
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nightingale

Posted 547 days ago
Yes, you right PSG, sorry I cannot resist - you make a prefect candidate for leg-pulling! ;-P

Glad you got that nice plate of proper food - as long as it does not become a dangerous habit for you to get by the side of the road whatever you are not getting at home! LOL!

staren

Posted 548 days ago
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Now that we know that Malema considers HIMSELF to be the ANCYL, I think this definition of a Narcissist off wikepedia is most apt:

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"To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen.[9]

People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined.[10] To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, he/she may also manifest a desire to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

Although individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others or to maintain long-term professional achievements.[11] With narcissistic personality disorder, the individual's self-perceived fantastic grandiosity, often coupled with a hypomanic mood, is typically not commensurate with his or her real accomplishments."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fool for thought.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 548 days ago
Very true and also very fitting !!!!

Investor44

Posted 548 days ago
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The media has created an icon by giving this unemployed high school dropout free publicity that he could never have purchased. This has potentially cost the country billions in lost investments and the possibility of a Moodies downgrade which in turn will increase government funding costs by billions. This funding is required to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure. The Family Charity Trust Fund puppy has absolutly zero understanding of economics and relies on unusual fringe outdated manuscripts and inspiration from the likes of Mugabe, Chavez and his deceased buddy Kadafi, guarenteed to destroy growth, jobs and the economy at large. He is a liability the country can no longer afford. MALEMA, YOU ARE FIRED !!!

sthabi

Posted 548 days ago
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Yesterday I was watching the WHOLE media briefing of ANCYL, which lasted for about an hour and half.

First of all…Im not a big fan of Juju, I have never liked him and I don’t think I ever will. But for the first time yesterday I heard him saying very relevant things, very valid and very rational. I think 90% of his speech was on how the processes towards and during his DC were flawed, how the decision to suspend him was made even before the DC, quoting statements of previous leaders saying the same things that he’s been charged for, proving how the ANC is (mis)using the state organs to discredit and supress the views of the ANCYL, how the media has been bias, and how the whole ‘thing’ is just a difference in political views and must be solved(debated) politically.

So to sum it up, I was very impressed with their briefing. But Juju being Juju, he obviously had to say some stupid and controversial things in-between. And now what really got me worried (for someone who saw the whole briefing), when I watched the news last night, they only showed three different clips of the speech where he was saying stupid things….and none of the valid things that he mentioned.

That really got me worried….why omit all the valid things in his speech and choose to show only the ‘stupid’ part of his speech. Isn’t that somehow assisting to turn people against him? For someone who didn’t see the whole speech….the three clips that they see on the news will represent what the ANCYL is all about. The media can either make you or break you…depending on what ‘they’ want.

I start to wonder if this isn’t what has been happening all along??

Don’t get me wrong…I think Juju is arrogant(maybe too arrogant), he somehow dislikes white people(just don’t wanna use the word ‘hate’), he thinks he is untouchable, and he overestimates his power. But I seriously think he knows his politic, he raises serious issues, but the few stupid things that he says discredit all the clever things he’s trying to communicate.

Just my opinion!!
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SuiGeneris

Posted 548 days ago
''''''''''but the few stupid things that he says discredit all the clever things he’s trying to communicate.'''''''''

=========================

He says stupid things all the time, very serious things, and that makes him a very stupid person and politician.....


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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
Sthabi - what exactly was flawed in the DC process? i want your opinion not what Juju said yesterday - i am hoping you have an opinion on this
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sthabi

Posted 548 days ago
@Nomakanjaane

I can olny reiterate on what he said as I was not in the DC and do not have any proof.

But he mentioned how Henekom as the chairperson of the DC was inpatient and often lost his temper during the proceedings. Juju's legal team even had to request for a break to discuss among themselves if they still want to continue with the proceedings or not. However. Henekom apologised and the DC continued.

So the DC where the chairperson looses his temper to the extend where he has to apologise to the defence team, whereas he is the one who's supposed to ensure fairsness and conducive environment for all parties....dont you think that can (could) sway the decision somehow?
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
well Sthabi - have you ever been exposed the rude arrogance of the youth league leaders? magaqa, malema, shivambu to be specific? i was also not in the DC room but i can imagine what the dram queesn were saying evading questions and procedures and giving a lecture on why this was not a DC but kangaroo kout!!

But then thanks for admitting that you are just relying on their narration of events - i thought you had your own opinion on the process. but in all fairness - do you think malema would give you a balanced view of the proceedings? just a question to you
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Markde_Vries

Posted 548 days ago
Sthabi, sthabi, sthabi, let's help you see the light here. Malema has a spin-doctor working with him. Likely someone on a high-ranking ANC'rs payroll (Sexwale comes to mind). Those moronic utterances you hear are from Malema and the gist of the presentation, now that's the spin-doctor doing his thing. Why? It’s all about the money! And that is what makes this whole Malema saga such a joke. He should simply be fired.
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sthabi

Posted 548 days ago
@SuiGeneris

I agree....he says srtupid things ALL THE TIME.

However...after lisnening to him for about two hours yeaterday, I picked up a whole lot of valid and somehow intelligent(for a change) things in his speech. And he obviously had to spoil it by saying stupid things as usual.

My argument is...off all the things he said, why does all news broadcasts show clips that have a bad reflection on him? Of all the things he said...why only choose to broadcast the stupid ones?? All Im saying is that the media has to be fair and broadcast 'balanced' news.

Im not defending Juju here...but Im worried that we only see what the media wants us to see and that somehow has an influence on our judgement.
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buddi

Posted 548 days ago
@sthabi
Don't you think that maybe Malema is exaggerating the issues a little bit, and that he is reporting on the hearing how HE sees it, and not really how it really is? How often don't supporters of Malema take his word as gospel?
Somehow I have more faith in the ANC (who I am not a fan of) than the ANCYL (who I am definitely not a fan of).
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sthabi

Posted 548 days ago
@Buddi
I guess none of us will never know what really took place in that DC...or even in the 'secret meetings' towards the DC.

Nonetheless...I think Malema is ill-disciplined, too arrogant for his own good, greedy, possibly corrupt and misleading, and is not a good representation of the youth of the country (especially black), and that he's not an ideal person to be a leader.

Secondly, I was not impressed with the clips of media briefing that they showed on the news. As much as Im not a Malema fan...I think it is the media's responsibility to give a 'balanced' and 'objective' broadcast of any speech made by any political party. I watched the whole media briefing for almost two hours yesterday, and what I saw on the news headline later on, what almost a total contrast of what the briefing was all about. They showed selective clips of all the awful and stupid things he said...and none of the valid things. So we also have to put an eye on what the media wants to feed us!!

Food for thought!!
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Access

Posted 547 days ago
I see a lot of people saying, "But some of what he says is very true and relevant." etc.

I recognise a marketing or sales technique in all of this.

Say enough rubbish and some of what you say is relevent and true, you get reactions out of it. You then take those things you got reactions out of and keep saying them, while adding new things, etc.

You get people saying "yes", get positives going, eventually all of what you are saying seems correct to the listener and your story is "sold".

Its easy to pick up what to say by studying the media. I am not convinced this man is actually doing anything good, actions speak louder than words.

Whats that thing hitler said? "tell a lie, make it a big lie, keep it simple, keep telling the lie, eventually people will believe you" or something like that.

omni

Posted 548 days ago
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jmalema = tokolosh! Beware!

Karabo_N.Ndlovu

Posted 548 days ago
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Malema is crying foul all over th place. Is he trying to say that he did not do anything wrong or wat? He deserved this Disciplinary. An organization is bigger than one person. In as much as this could be a political adventure to destroy his career, he brought it all to himself by acting like a lunatic to embarass the whole country. And he should really stop using the poor as a scapegoat dats lame!

BlackTsunami

Posted 548 days ago
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It is amazing how our leader continue to capture the attention of the media. Even in his supossedly weak state, he still make the headlines.

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buddi

Posted 548 days ago
I'm sure you've heard the saying - empty vessels make the most noise.
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
the media is always attracted to bad people and stories - i saw de klerk on TV being counted and asked but why is broke SABC doing that.

OTTOOTTO

Posted 548 days ago
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Shame, this Malema guy and his legal team seem to conflate things, attitudes, and perceptions about the NDC verdict, none of which form any substantial matters of evidence related to the charges. It just creates a cloud of smoke and mirrors. Neither does the Malema tirade has anything to do with the fairness of the NDC process except his own delusions and aspersions. No evidence. He completely fobbed the press with garbage.

ANC leaders one way or the other serve in one committee or the other and thereby have oversight over all the work of the ANC. All ANC leaders respect all processes of the ANC at all times, that is why Mbeki resigned and didn’t appeal, its an exercise of futile stupidity. The Holomisa’s and the Lekota’s did not to even attempt it. The Top Six – are the executive led by President Zuma who have an obligation from the NGC to instil discipline without fear or favour as they have duly done on Malema. Malema can’t expect the President to consult the mass membership of the ANC NEC or the NWC every time he has to enforce discipline or institute charges, he already has those powers as a President and the 2010 NGC resolutions.

ANC organisational processes like in any organisation are not a court of law, Malema knows what he signed-up for and now conflates the disciplinary system of a political organisation with a legal system. He also confuses issues - he was charged as an ANC member not as the leader of the ANCYL. The ANCYL constitution applies only to the ANCYL members and cannot be in conflict with the ANC constitution as such ANCYL constitution does not apply to ANC members. The ANCYL with its own constitution does not vote in the NEC and is there as an ex-officio member, that’s how legal the ANCYL constitution.

Thousands of ANC members face the NDC and receive the same treatment, they don’t get to have sentence mitigation opportunities or be consulted as to how severe the disciplinary action should be – for goodness sake this is a disciplinary process not a court of law process. By all accounts of his tirade the Appeals Committee will confirm the NDC verdict and may extend the sentence for his ill timed tirade and aspersions against the ANC and the NEC.

This confirms how divisive Malema is apart from being a complete ass. The media is so bankrupt they cant see beyond what they have been fed_bull. They couldnt ask a single question of relevance to the matter of Malema's presentation.

FerdinandBerkhof

Posted 548 days ago
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People in your HOME TOWN were celebrating your suspension Julius. They know what you are and what you stand for.

OTTOOTTO

Posted 548 days ago
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for a while I was worried that President Zuma was behind the stupid things Malema kept saying, now we know that it is Winnie and Tokyo.
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Razzo

Posted 547 days ago
OTTOOTTO......your views are very simplistic in approach and I highly doubt you have a firm understanding of how the ANC nor its youth league......and im not suggesting that you actually do want to understand them, but the views of the youth league are the views of branches of the ANCYL which are raised during policy conferences or regional conferences through various committees and substructures.

Yes, some senior leaders might have influence in raising certain matters and hoping that the YL will champion their cause, but to simply reduce all the YL ascertions on certain issues to just Winnie Mandela and Tokyo Sexwale is a bit misplaced and tantamount to mischief......Im not attacking you here, but just wanted to clarify the issue because there are branches in the ANC and ANCYL that wanted these resolutions to be dealt with as evident in the ANC Polokwane Conference of 2007 which is where these were adopted!!
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nomakanjaane

Posted 547 days ago
Razzo - you are also being simplistic. my branch is yet to be consulted on the appeal and the insults being hurled to senior leaders
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Razzo

Posted 547 days ago
Point taken Noms......
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nomakanjaane

Posted 547 days ago
eish Razzo mate - this is complex but i accept your points; tis just that there is a lot of abuse in/of the process by leadership all the time. if everyone can just implement resolutions then the world will be at peace but no people want to tie up leadership issues with policy issues and blackmail all of us. for example the youth league preferred list for 2012 has 5 uneducated people inthe top 6 - now that is disaster

Razzo

Posted 548 days ago
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Its amazing how people who are not fans of the ANC and ANCYL always "claim to know more" than those in the movement...........AMAZING!!! One thing's for sure, when Malema goes, another YL member will definately come in and raise these uncomfortable questions that those in economic freedom hate to answer.....question: Will the country want to chase him out too????
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madlapha

Posted 547 days ago
Razzo you ask a good question,blacks are always feeling one pain and our leaders were suffering so we will vote them till we elect the educated leader like Obama,because we now elect because u were in the fight.whites are always planning to destroy our movement.nomatter we have problems but i belive soon we will be the best,finaly ANC will lead till jesus come back...they can lie to a manority blacks but can not lie to us as a majority,we know where we come from..Razzo how is ur day
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 547 days ago
........Gee!....The crooks from overseas are different from the african crooks, different from the south african crooks........whaddayaknow!!!.......
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Razzo

Posted 547 days ago
Madlapha, I am together and strong broer......just tryna keep on keeping on. Maybe if i keep my shoulder to the grind, I too can attain Economic Freedom in my lifetime. How is your day bro?

Biko-Lives

Posted 548 days ago
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When our leader said "Our Gloves are off" he meant every word of it! We are appealing to every economic freedom fighter to mobilise wherever they are to come and flood the ANCYL. The time to be exchanging roses with the enemy is up! We need to fast-track the gains of the revolution in our lifetime! Our resolutions and mandates are clear and they are:
1. Land expropriation without compansation.
2. The nationalisation of our countries mines and all the monopoly industries.
3. Free education for all from primary up to the university.
4. Wage Subsidy for the youth!
Furthermore we would like to see a new form of leadership of the ANC the ones that are going to truely represent the ideals of O.R.! Amandla!! Forwad ever, backward never! It is our time to eat!!
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nomakanjaane

Posted 548 days ago
Boko - have you ever heard of Thomas Sankara? if yes, what are your views about him?
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staren

Posted 548 days ago
You demand, demand and demand to take, take, and take, yet you're not prepared to make any kind of a contribution or o0ffer any kind of intelligent solutions.

Education is a privilege, not a right. You would well to remember that.
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Razzo

Posted 547 days ago
Education is a RIGHT Staren and not a priveledge...........this is where the problem sets in with some in our country!!!!!! shame!!!!
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staren

Posted 547 days ago
Ah Razzo, so you think its your RIGHT to have someone who is prepared to educate you?? You think the universe magically produces schools and capable educators specifically for the purpose of educating you?? Or do they grow on trees??

I dont think so.

It is a PRIVILEDGE to have someone who is prepared to dedicate their life to the purpose of educating you. It is not your right to expect that there will be someone out there prepared to give their life for the purpose of educating you!

YOUR mentality, with your sense of self-entitlement, IS what is wrong with this country at the moment.
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BobbyBob

Posted 547 days ago
"Forwad ever, backward never! It is our time to eat!!"

What you are suggesting is nothing more than staying in the mud of the past and digging a hole in it. Soon the whole elephant will disappear in the pit you dug.

There is no forward in what you suggest, you just want to take from one , give to another without thinking about the economic consequences. There would be massive unemployment and hunger. Our people would run to Zimbabwe for food.

No, the way forward is to create opportunities, grow a bigger economy, create more jobs and that's not easy when most countries, including those of the west have the same problem of huge youth unemployment, just like us.
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Razzo

Posted 547 days ago
Staren, we will agree to disagree on that point. It is every childs right for government to provide education for it.......this is one of the key cornerstones of our constitution. If you dont believe so, I will respect your view. May your children see this a reward an/or privelage to be educated and i will tell mine that it is their right and they must see to it that it is met.....with all due respect ofcourse.
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staren

Posted 547 days ago
Razzo, whilst I agree that every child should have equal access to education and the right to equal access to education, and that the Government is obligated to provide such education, I don't think anyone has the right to anything or is owed anything by anyone else simply by virtue of their existence.

Life, education, employment, freedom etc are things that are either bestowed upon us by the grace of others or are things that we gain through our own labours.

Additionally - and albeit from a slightly skewed perspective admittedly - asserting that you have the right to education, is indirectly also asserting that someone else HAS TO, without choice, be an educator, to satisfy your right..

Would you still feel the same way if you lived a country that had only 100 people for example, and none of the other 99 people had any desire to be educators. Would you still assert the same right to education? And if they asserted their right to education, would you be prepared to take on the burden and responsibility of educating another?

The point is that everything comes at an expense, not so? For one person to be educated, it requires that another be prepared to educate.

Anyway - and more importantly - I think we both agree that education is critical and that EVERY child should be given the opportunity to reach their full potential. As to whether or not we consider it a right or a privilege, on that I am more than happy to agree to disagree... J

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 548 days ago
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........when the "leathers"say: "our gloves are off", it means: "our nails are growing longer".......

.......we suggest start nationalising the limpet mines, keep them in your pockets....

......demand spring time for six months a year and summer for the rest........

........the time to eat is too far...the time to defecate is still in progress.........

Mtho'engenanqondo

Posted 547 days ago
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Fact remains.....the ANC (under white capital pressure) once more postponed a very pertinent issue; Economic Transformation! In silencing Malema they missed an opportunity to fully engage real issues that will always be like an albatross in our society. So in suspending him are you also suspending Mining Redress and Beneficiation, Land Redistribution, Free Quality Education, Universal Acess to Quality Health etc? There are millions of Malema's whose anger is not dependent on the authority of Henekom, the White Messiah. Lets play the ball, not the m(e)n!
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BobbyBob

Posted 547 days ago
OK , lets play the facts, not the men.

The economic measures you and Malema suggest are solutions some believe will solve our problems.If they did , you would see many people and business suporting it. Many jobs mean a bigger economy and that means more profit and a happier country with less crime.

Reality however shows that those "solutions" do not work, they create misery, hunger and starvation as the economy implodes and the tax revenues dry up.

So what is the solution? There are solutions, but they are difficult and involve hard work and labour flexibility. We are not alone facing issues like that, the world struggles with massive youth unemployment.

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spain

Posted 547 days ago
@Bobby - u are not correct " Many jobs mean a bigger economy and that means more profit and a happier country with less crime."
The growth of the economy creates jobs - that growth itself depends on the political framework of a country especial policy formulation - in SA we have been experiencing economic growth but ours has been jobless.

JohannesModise

Posted 547 days ago
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Zuma go back to KZN PLEASE!
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samsam

Posted 547 days ago
is KZN nt in SA tlitlitltlitlitlitli

JohannesModise

Posted 547 days ago
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2012 Mangaung Zuma and his puppet Mntatsha Red card,Hounerable Motlanti to be my President.It wont change never is already on black and white!!!
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RogueTrooper

Posted 547 days ago
Ermmm...ok does anybody (yourself included) have any idea what you are on about?

Thrust

Posted 547 days ago
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I wonder why people (esp white) are so afriad of Malema so much. I mean the guy is not and has never been as deadly as he sounded.
Could it be because he raises sensetive topics, such as, distribution of wealth?
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spain

Posted 547 days ago
They are afraid and they should not be. Malema is not the problem even if he dies the issues he, and ANCYL , is raising will not vanish - people are hungry and when they say enough is enough those who have fell treatened. Instead if they can make sure that they are part of the solution - which is sumthng that should have been done looong tym ago - there would no need for these tensions.
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RogueTrooper

Posted 547 days ago
Because we have seen his type before and heard the same rantings from seemingly benign individuals and then...all hell broke lose.
Some examples...Adolph Hitler, Che Guevara, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi, Charles Taylor, Robert Mugabe, and the list goes on and on
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staren

Posted 547 days ago
Actually it is because he raises these topics (which yes, are valid and DO need addressing) purely for his own gain and to further his own populist support base, and in a reckless and irresponsible manner, and in a way that has the potential to derail our economy, much in the same way the "nationalisation" of farms in Zim destroyed their economy.

Really it has nothing to do with addressing sensitive issues, black-or-white, but everything about recognising and avoiding the exact same mistake our northern neighbours made.

And the last time I checked, foresight is colourbind.
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spain

Posted 547 days ago
Trooper point taken but please scratch Che out of the list thou. 1stly this country will neva be run by a dictator, yes we might trap, sabotage, back-stab, betray each other to civil unrest or worse but neva will we be dictated by Malema. 2ndly playing the man ( Malema ) will only add fuel to the problems coz they are genuine he's not thumsucking them.3rdly most people nationalisation will not mainly bcz it failed in some african states not exactly knowing why or how and hence the same people are not able 2give alternatives to nationalization which then leaves us at square1.
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RogueTrooper

Posted 547 days ago
@ Spain...why do you want Che Guevarra scratched from the list? He was a psychopath of the 1st order...he was a murdering mad-man that the world is better off without.
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spain

Posted 547 days ago
Staren -- u wrote " Actually it is because he raises these topics (which yes, are valid and DO need addressing) purely for his own gain and to further his own populist support base" .. how do u know this?
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staren

Posted 547 days ago
Spain, we have discussed this before... the timing of his actions (protest marches in light of school exams, etc) the lavish lifestyle, yet claiming to be a man of the people, the reckless and irresponsible manner in which he raises these issues - regardless of the consequences for the economy and the people it might affect - his choice of language, etc, etc...

But I think the clincher - that was obvious to all - was when he declared the day before yesterday during his tv press conference that an attack on him is an attack on the ANCYL.

Basically the man declared that HE is the YL, and that he considers himself to be bigger than the ANC and beyond reproach... if after that press conference there could be any doubt as the mans true nature, and that his actions are anything less than self serving, well...

BarryPotgieter

Posted 547 days ago
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Malema!! You poor ARROGANT non intelligent fool, you don`t want to stop digging your own GRAVE. So be it and become a non entity, but i enjoy your jokes and foolish remarks, of course what comes out your mouth, indicates your intelligence levels and you are putting the rest of the Black South Africans into a bad light in the eyes of the World. No wonder we are called a 3rd. world or even a 4th. world with your intelligence floating around and the more you speak the worse our economy becomes. You should be charged for economic SABOTAGE.
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spain

Posted 547 days ago
Your hatred for this man is evident and brazen all over your comment. What interests me though is wheather or not there is anything that he has raised or said that u actually agree with?
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bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 547 days ago
........not to mention the kind of response of his followers...

......They try to defend the indefensible, and since, as the saying goes: 'There is no worse blind man than the one who refuses to see'..........we descended to a 4th world country category already.....

........consider the comments of a Nkandla neighbour with a "matchbox-dwelling (and perhaps an open toilet)" to Mr Zuma's "Little-Versailles-mini-palace-on-the-Nkandla-prairie":

""The residents of Nkandla likewise have good things to say about President Jacob Zuma.

"Our president is making us proud. Look what he has done to Nkandla," the Mail & Guardian newspaper quoted a resident, who was admiring the developments at Zuma's hometown, as saying.

Zuma's Nkandla is undergoing a major facelift, reportedly costing the taxpayer between R69-million and R400-million."""" (your TL columnist Phumla Matjila)

JohannesModise

Posted 547 days ago
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Mr Malema raised isue that are on mandate for ANC,
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RogueTrooper

Posted 547 days ago
Sense...do you ever make any of it?

KingsleyLonkokile

Posted 547 days ago
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To me it doesn't look like Malema understand the charges and why he was found guilty. He admitted guild last year after the Zimbabwe issue, told that if he repeated the same offence he will be suspended. Now he is attacking the same people he should be apologizing to, it took months for ANC to bring charges against Malema after he went to Botswana. I believe that whoever brought the charges, worked around this issue very carefully and strategically to bring Melama down, Listening to Mr Hanekom, last week he kept on saying Malema has brought the country, government and the ANC in to disrepute by knowingly ignoring a resolution that was passed in Polokwane, that only the appointed officials within the ANC can go on foreign missions, and this is the same offence as the first relating to Zim. And that's why he has been suspended. Only if this smart ass can read the charge sheet and respond accordingly, If I was him, I would be begging for forgiveness and claiming that the sentencing was too hush, that's what he should be doing, but he making baseless accusation, which will put him in even more trouble. He has no future in the ANC if he is going to keep on like this. He must take a Political Science class and study the history of idealist, I think he' s reading a wrong book.

proudySA

Posted 547 days ago
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Im not black but even i know two things - 1) if you black and young, dont f*ck with the elders; 2) dont f*ck with the elders that are sleeping with very wealthy powerful white people.

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spain

Posted 547 days ago
These elders are too nice for my liking, honestly speaking.

Alexio

Posted 547 days ago
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This ANC drama is sickening, where in the world do you have a youth league taking centre stage in the political dispansation of a nation not at war, only in South Africa. Do we ever hear of a youth league in America, Britain, France, Russia, Brazil, India, Japan, or China? The liberation war is over; we should have more seasoned, level minded adults engaging each other. The entire notion of youth league is totaly meaningless. They must simply form their own party, and campaign for a popular vote, and not subject us to this circus as if they are a previleged group. MDC in Zimbabwe was born out of youth and the labour movement.

NMashaba

Posted 547 days ago
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The biggest problem faced by Malema and the ANCYL is that they still see themselves as a militant organization. Unfortunately, militancy has lost relevance. We are no longer living in an era of violence and war. A militant culture and mindset was very relevant and appropriate 20 years ago, when the situation faced by the country and the ANCYL was that of a violent and militant nature. We are now in progression and growth mode. We cannot tackle issues of economic growth the same way we handled economic freedom.

Malema and the rest of the ANCYL leadership must consider this suspension as an opportunity to reinvent themselves. Make themselves relevant and representative of the current SA youth vs the 1976 youth who were fighting a completely different battle.

As much as I would like to support and be a part of the ANCYL, I cannot, as it does not represent who I am, and where I am going, nor does it resemble what I would imagine the ANCYL to be about.

I also find it concerning that Malema genuinely believes that he and the ANCYL still represent the ANC youth, when they can openly be in contradiction of the mother organization and the reason for their existence.

Malema, take some time out and figure out what exactly you want to stand for and evaluate if that is in line with the ANC and take it from there!
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Scribbles

Posted 547 days ago
NMashaba,

Well said!

Maddock

Posted 547 days ago
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I think our political setup is still trapped in the defiance syndrome of the past; we have a tendency to have contempt to authority. The ANC needs to reduce its youth wing to size. It should be the dog wagging the tail, and not the tail wagging the dog.

The verdict by the hearing is a step in the right direction. Our youth must exercise their democratic rights peacefully. Otherwise the economic and strategic interests of the nation supersede individualistic interests, within their ranks or their sponsors within ANC leadership. They cannot take us back to medieval hunting and gathering through nationalisation of land and mines. The ordinary youth simply want jobs and fast cars, and the two policies they champion will not bring about that, ask Zimbos.

Tell-It

Posted 547 days ago
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Im so glad Juju has drawn on the reference to Mandela and his version of firebrand politics which defied the elders-most notably Chief Luthuli himself-and changed this country 4eva. People always work from the basis of fear, ppl here are talking about all wonders of economic data, foreign investors and capital flight..What do these things matter when the poor indigenous people have nothing and are suffering? U would rather please foreigners than fix the problems in your own country? I guess thats the difference bewteen Africans and Arabs. How can we care more about JSE indexes, moody's ratings and Investor confidence more than the suffering and plight of our own hungry children roaming the streets with no future prospects whatsoever??Shocking! Juju continue championing your cause and telling the truth and showing SA the realities it pretends do not exist after all- No good deed goes unpunished'! Every leader including Jesus was targeted, mocked and ridiculed until the people finally woke up and accepted the truth.. We all know this is political and Zuma and his white business partners are at the head of this thing even Hanekom and Gwede are small bit players in this grand Drama.!!Amandla Awethu!! Viva Juju keep fighting the good fight!!
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spain

Posted 547 days ago
I echo ur words, and fully agree ...
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Scribbles

Posted 547 days ago
Tell-It and Spain,

So you feel that we should simply DO something to help the poor and yet cripple us by saying we can't rely on investments, economics, or business to achieve our goal? I'll have to firmly disagree and say that the state of the economy DOES matter, especially if you want to help the poor. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise.

On top of this, you feel we should support Malema who priorities marches over education as well as militancy and radicalism over reason? He doesn't even have a plan of action other than to make calls for expropriation without compensation. That's not a plan, that's an attempt to legalize theft and nullify the rights of all South Africans.

Your attempts at allieviating the plight of the poor sound more like calls for an authoritarian government with a penchant for militancy.

bis_k'hallawaya

Posted 547 days ago
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"""""People always work from the basis of fear, ppl here are talking about all wonders of economic data, foreign investors and capital flight..What do these things matter when the poor indigenous people have nothing and are suffering? """"""

"""""How can we care more about JSE indexes, moody's ratings and Investor confidence more than the suffering and plight of our own hungry children roaming the streets with no future prospects whatsoever??Shocking! """"""'

??????????..............

.......No good deed goes unpunished!......................ha ha ha ha ha ha hahehehe eee.....

..I think we humans are born either to be 'dominators' or 'slaves'.........When the latter are duped and mocked by the former as "they are in power", we realise why continents like Africa and other 3d world countries exist. No deity, whatever your beliefs are, is responsible for this....But it is part of evolution..........

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Thandabantu

Posted 545 days ago
I dont care who says what, Malema has come in the right time to raise matters of importance, matters of national agenda, matters of public interest, this is south africa having its own dynamic issues. Through Malema South Africa will find the balance between haves and have not and a lot more inequalities of that nature.
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IanWillow

Posted 542 days ago
I'm not convinced that reducing everyone to zero is the best way to achieve economic equality.
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Tokolosh

Posted 189 days ago
But Julius you are still corrupt in many other things! The holes you punch in the leadership does not make you less guilty of being corrupt! You do not pay your taxes! You take from the poor for yourself! You are still going to jail! That is what the bones say. You are going to be convicted of tax evasion, money laundering and a few more things. The ancestors are not happy with you and the why you squandered your chances for wealth. You misused your influence and power just to make yourself richer. Sorry baba no place for you even if there is many holes! And those so-called leaders who do the same is also going to join you in jail!