I guess you are saying this because you think Mohammad (pbuh) is a Zulu

BokFan I heard he was a Tswana girl.

No Mohammed was a Persian paedophile.

I can't just believe that in this day and age people still creat rift between religious societies. Jesus Christ was following Islam - The submission to God - and he himself stated that people must worship and praise Thee.

All I can say is ,to you who call yourselves "christians" must read more and stop idol worshipping, Jesus Christ is not God, he's a messenger as was all others who came before and after him. Now I do understand why Jews wanted to kill Christ - who was not bytheway, but rather raised to the heavens and shall return on judgement day - because you worshipped him rather than his creator The Almighty Allah.

People people people, let's start worrying about the here and now we have one life so let's make the most of it. If you want to believe in imaginary men and fantastical after lives then that's cool but let's not make that impact others that are just trying to make life on earth the best it can be for everyone. While arguing on public platforms about people that lived thousands of years ago is entertaining it only gets people upset and only makes you all look a little loony i.e. it's hard to take anything you say seriously thereafter.

Datraveller who are you talking to?????????????

The religious folks who's comments have since been removed.

This is so fuuny

I agree is babaric i see Desmnd Dube is still allive these are just somekind of midn deformed characteristic. I am a Shangaan and I do not accept these kinds of treatments.
I understand (but I still cannot accept this nonsense) because I know that people are born with animal type of characteristics; make reference to the writing about the ancient stories: savage and barbaric behavior and thanks to the Grace of Evolution, we are changing continuously. The beautiful cultures, norms we have today - the ‘’acceptable’ cultures are the consequences of change -evolution. These cultures are acceptable because of their good course and the fact that they are opposed to barbaric type of behavior or savageness. I am not surprised to witness people like Ntuli who are denying civilization. They do not want to be transformed, vary from barbaric type of behavior; they enjoy being stuck in their lack of restraints in taste. This is really nasty because their denial in civilization stimulates chaos in the country as their behavior always shows tribalism. Tribalism, like racism is the enemy of civilization and this is not what people want, unless one is a harebrained. If you do something that you know will be throbbing other people’s feelings, then that action is barbaric? If you were not aware that this kind of action will be throbbing people, then you are a savage, because you should know by now -at this well transformed world, that such kind of actions are not part of any of the acceptable cultures. What is meant to be a joke to the barbarians cannot be a joke to the transformed or civilized people.

The guy have now stimulated talks that show no respect to our Heavenly Father. Jesus Christ is not the name that one can use for money making,because God can prove one wrong. This guy must apologize to God for his deeds. Jesus Christ is the son of God, and I am not expecting people to debate nasty about the Creator. I know I cannot stop any of them; they continue, but one needs to remember that God owns owr lives. They can continue to make fun of God, anyway, they look losers, and losers do not appreciate what God gave them. Tinyiko

Umm yes laugh at ourselves but tribalism is problem and this implies that to be Shangaan is bad thing when Shangaan's clearly are feeling a little inferior because of growing up being told they are. I think we need to start a Shangaan consciousness movement.

It's like if you imply that a Canadian is from the USA they have a fit, do it the other way around and those from the USA could not be bothered - this is purely a inferiority complex. So perhaps the Shangaans should sit down and be proud of who they are, but if Zuma can have a spear wag about a painting that he some how interpreted to insult polygamy and blacks in general then we should be offended by this blatant tribalism.

Its easy to say when you are not the one offended.

I wouldn't plus I hear the men are loaded.

I do not like that people like to justify offensive cartoons by telling me its meant to be a joke. What joke? I aint stupid.

Thank you for the history lesson. I find it fascinating.

The Zulu's have not changed much have they. They caused trouble back then and they still do. I quess Jacob Zuma will soon declare AmaSouthAfrica meaning South Africans belong to him. His conduct certainly shows he think so.

@kksonuk, so what do u call those people that ran away from kwaZulu with Soshangane? My understanding of the Zulu history and the way things are done which results in people called AmaZulu etc is like this, a Chief say Ximba for argurment sake, the people he is a Chief to would be called amaXimba,Chief Ntshangase uses his clan name (isithakazelo) to refer to his people or the area under his control. So my understanding is those people that ran away with soShangane were then called amaShangane just like we have AmaNdebele who went to Zimbabwe with Mzilikazi kaMashobane who also ran away from kwaZulu. I am no history fundi but from what I have learnt from my std 3/4 history lesson during apartheid that's what i was taught and more accurate history on that is available. You may be a Tsonga but there are Shanganes as well which I do not how to separate and I am sure by now the terms are used to mean the same tribe unless you still know that your line has not mixed with the Soshangane people you are still a Tsonga just like before Soshangane moved up North. You also mentioned there were no Chiefs before so Shangane, are the current Chiefs as a result of Soshangane? No I do not think so every black tribe had a Chief/Ruler/King or whatever it was called at some stage. you may call it power hunger but it happens everywhere even in modern society u have America bullying every other Nation and yes they are a power house just like King Shaka formed the Zulus his vision was to have one big tribe, attack the others and make them your subjects , those who couldn't match he volunteered to serve him which I think he succeeded just like African man do, get a girlfriend, marry her and give her your surname. Obviously if you do not appreciate being an African embracing what we are which is common from almost all the African tribes even outside the borders of our country. As it is there is a lot of common things between the Zulus and the Shanganes, I am talking about those in rural areas.

I can imagine the pain it causes people to be looked down at as being inferior because you are a Shangaan/Tsonga or whatever tribe, but we sometimes take things too personal even when they aren't supposed to be, we all look down at other tribes one way or another but this I guess was just meant to be for humor unfortunately most of us have no sense of humor at all. I mean how many times have you heard that the Zulus whom they degrade as Izinzule are uneducated,ignorant and very stubborn, abomageza etc when in reality not all the Zulus are like that.there are jokes created to riducule the Zulus like'' 19 Zulu men rocked up in a bar and when the bartender asked them why so many of them? they said no under 18'' Do you see the Zulus make noise about it and run to the Human Right Commission? No! is it because they are uneducated? No, there are many learned Zulu people out there and with them being in Majority I suppose there is more educated Zulu people than the other tribes in this country because they are in majority. As for the records Vendas, Pedi,Xhosa and all the other tribes are ridiculed one way, I am not condoning it but we should view a joke as that. If its not a race card issue, its a religion issue, I think we as Black South Africans have so much anger within and we focus our energy on things that do not help build this country, if we could focus this energy on helping our communities SA will be a place to live in.

By the way I am a very proud Zulu and when I see my fellow brother I do not see a Zulu or Xhosa or whatever I see you as my own brother until you prove yourself otherwise.

@secret,

not zulus, afrikaners. remove your racial blinkers and read south african history for wat it is.

@Tsafendas, U dont know wht is wrong and right..Just like mdu Ntuli who use his right to freedom of expresion to insult people he hate so much, I dont know why he us so much. i am a proud Tsonga and not gonna look down at myself just because he think he is much more human than myself. The spear painting saga is considered an insult to our president, and I felt offended by the painting as an african person because of the past where black people were paraded naked to the amusement of other races. So to you @ tsafendas, the painting of our president with his private parts exposed was a joke maybe, not to all of us. I am deeply hurt by the the cartonist.

Low self esteem person is one who has to insult others to make themselves feel better.There is nothing funny about this stupid joke.

true

If what you are saying is correct and I do not doubt it for one second then the Zulu's are guilty of appartheid like behaviour 18 years after it has been abollished. Well,well,well!!!!

stop with the lies.... all tribes in Southern Africa have insulting words for other tribes and or people not themselves. ie. Ndebeles call others UMHLOTSHANA, Sothos call Ngunis Matabele, etc. So please stop acting as though this is Zulu problem only. Ps. How do you know the Cartoonist is Zulu - from the sound of his bad Zulu in Cartoons and the fact that he is from Mpumalanga he could be SWATI, ZULU, NDEBELE or SHANGAN. So just stop!!

@secretvoice
Yes you are correct. And not sure if I agree with you on what we were suppose to disagree. But if apartheid and many years of separation and marginalization affected a lot of people (more-specially those left in the rural areas and still suppressed 18 years after.. today), then some of Zulus (like those who are not taking any offense on this) are locked in the same situation.

Not all people see it the way you do. Last time I commented that maybe I could defend De Clerk for saying he did not create home lands because they existed... people were not denied voting (because they voted in the home lands I suppose hahahaha!!!). See some white people would agree with him.. and I would somewhat agree because people were not driven according to ethnicity and be put in groups.. the groups already existed and they took advantage of it.

If I were to say show me one Tsonga, Venda or Sotho speaking person in the KZN cabinet today.. I can bet it will be none... But that does not mean we do not have those people living in KZN and it is neither because they are segregated upon.. there might be a lot to be debated.

We always downplay the treatment we get from people as Tsongas, and make no mistake we even make jokes out of it ourselves as well sometimes. But you know a joke is relative and depends on the motive behind it. As much as there are jokes about Zulus which I do not deny exist.

I agree with you that South Africa has a problem in general. As much as we call other fellow Africans with that name.. I should mention it "kwerekwere" and expect them to be at home with it. I suppose people think we should take it the same way here...

We have a moral decay... and as we always say that he most successfull thing apartheid ever achieved in this country is to teach a black man to hate himself. But again.. I must say that some of the hatred we have has nothing to do with apartheid at all... we just lost the moral. How many people call Tito Mboweni, or Lawrence Mushwana a Shangaan? I guess none.. but can call me on the street lelishangaan. Anything bad as you say is associated with a Shangaan.. even commuting suicide due to associateion as this cartoon suggests. Lol!

Mfethu..please do yourself a favour and you tube all Mdu's cartoons. I'm half Tsonga and Zulu. The guy insults all tribes, gays, etc. He's trying to be funny and not insult people per se. He even insults Limpopo and KZN in his cartoons. He's a cartoonist.

@nsukuangel, dts true. education is a key. peaple like mdu ntulu and desmond dube wont stop us from being ourself if that is their intentions.

Make fun of a Tsonga as uneducated.. a Tsonga will laugh his lungs out.. Make fun of a Zulu as uneducated, a Zulu will laugh.. make fun of a Xhosa circumcision gone wrong.. a Xhosa will laugh his lungs out... make fun of a person wanting to commit suicide because he/she is Tsonga, you testing the character of those of us who loves humor.

Things are funny when Zulus are being insulted, but not Shangaans? Really?

Do you think the public was wrong to force Desmond Dube to apologize after making a joke suggesting Shangaans are baboons?

SOLUTION: Government must pass a law setting up a third legislative body, made up of all tribes, religions, and sexualities, and interest groups. All comedians and cartoonists must submit their material for approval. Then they can know that making fun of Shangaan suicide is not funny but making fun of a gay guy committing suicide IS funny. Comedy is meant to half insult half tickle. Otherwise it's not funny. Also this LOWER HOUSE OF COMEDY can decide on things like making fun of an UNEDUCATED ZULU is FUNNy or NOT!! I personally find offense in making fun of UNEDUCATED ZULUS cause it hits a nerve with me as a ZULU but I can still see how a comedian can find it funny. By the way the same cartoonist had the SAME JESUS OF THE ANC BLEACHING HIMSELF TO BE WHITE!! Is that insulting. It's comedy. Come on!

The big question is can you as a black person understand how a white comedian can make fun of black people (and you say OUCH, that hurt!) but still be ok with him making that joke, even if you didn't find it funny? I can. I've experienced it plenty times. We laugh when comedians make fun of indian stereotypes...it's open season on Indians in this country ...black, white, indian comedians make fun of Indians and stereotypes.. I'm sure indians find some of the steretypes hurtful so who decides what can be said or not said.

THE SPEAR is a classic example as I referred to it many times today... what happened...? it resulted in a "government" march to a gallery!! LoL!. How a Zulu man had to mobilize the whole country to take offense out of a joke directed to him and his way of doing things!... Ain't that was suppose to be funny???!!!

@Jaya
How many times did your own family referrer to anything they did not necessarily approve of or agree with as "ezamaShangaan lezo"? If you were honest to yourself you would know that that happens a lot in your house as well and you got used to it and hence you do not understand why we take offense ...

We are not against pranks and I mentioned before that we also laugh at many jokes and some of them we make up ourselves ... Here we are talking of the pain and suffering that we grew up under (as the lady put in the article) ... and now for someone suggesting that one would want to commit suicide because the "umphakathi" will have a problem with him... that has gone far bro... the same way the spear has gotten into the nerves of every man (sorry Zulu man) and drove the whole country to sympathize!

Ask your Tsonga relatives about the song (composed by Shangaans and sing it during the "muchngolo dance) that goes in part "iwa lehisa muchanganeeee vata zela va hikumooo iwalehisa"... and find out about it and what it means.. you will realize that we do take a punch to our own as well. hahahahahaha.

I agree with you. But religion is not something one should make fun off. As afrikaner I can laugh off being called a Rock Spider etc. but when it comes to what I believe, I find it EXTREMELY offensive if someone ridicules it. Poke your fun at people, but know you are treading on a very thin line when it comes to this type of blasphemy. you just might find yourself in a tight spot.

Blasphemy is subjective.
Most people who cry 'blasphemy' at a picture think absolutely nothing about picking and choosing which part of their scripture to ignore or which part to cherry pick to suit their own agenda. I, for one, am not a fan of the fatwa approach to everything.

As a shangaan south african i feel extremely offended by this. It is the stupid murray who started this whole idiocy. He must be taken to court for inciting ethno-racial violance in south africa. Idiot.

at least he not an afrikaner...

Remember how Shangaans were targeted during the xenophobic attacks? It all starts as stereotypes. Today you laugh it off, and tomorrow its a different story. I turn to not underestimate the things that have the potential to inflame. This is Africa. At the end of the day, we are prone to civil unrest.

Verwoed and his compatriots took advantage of existing scenario ... and that is what is proclaimed today in this country... You are Shangaan (as long as you are not Zulu speaking).. You are kwerekwere as long as you are not a South African. Apartheid system found Africans leaving in separation... fighting wars between themselves are wanting to conquer one another.. the same way Soshangaan conquered Tsonga and became their Chief.

We need to leapfrog and jump some stages.. Not only look at us as black south Africans... But we need to look at Africans (both black and white) as Africans and have identity.

kksonuk

Man I like your comments very much. You are spot on in your assessment of our situation. If the majority of people will think like you we will become the next world power superior to America, China and India.

For correction, the Zulu chief was called Soshangane.

Tsonga people are not Zulus.. You forgot to mention that... hahahahaha. But in this country both Tsonga and Shangaans are considerd one group... They also speak the same language except that Shangaans speak mix of both Zulu and Tsonga (mainly around the areas of Bushbuckridge rigion.. and Tsongas seak the suppose to be pure Tsonga in the Nothern part of the region (Nkowankowa, Giyani, Malamulele area.

We are defending both Tsonga and Shangaans as they are and have always been dehumanized. Jokes are taken as pranks... dehumanization is something else. LoL!