Comrade Mike123

If I may ask my Chief, with due respect: What is the real purpose of initiation of argument platform under ''Timelive'' authentic media purpose?

I doubt if this platform was created to ''extremely insult'' or perpetuate racial related ''deep hatred'' and perpetual disunity in our diversity!

You sound very matured but your perpetual ''feather weight'' and precisely ‘’racially’’ inclined comments does not serve any purpose of the core value and relevance of this blog!

Please learn how bloggers like RSA.MammoCindy and others are portraying themselves you will at list understand the reason why Timelive created this blog, I stand to be corrected precisely by the ''manager'' of this blog!

We can build an honest unity in diversity if we support and love each other or at list tolerate each other as one ''common'' South African citizens in our diversity!

There is no need to insult people by promoting civil racial antics, if a person insult you simply do not respond or respond by showing a solution or relevant point of law, as every topic is related to either legal prescripts or possible relevant useful solution you might think of.

For example, in your comment above, which solution or valuable fact are you adding by uttering such words to promote unity and permanent solution to the problem of Marikana miners!!??

I do not mean to sound ''ANC inclined'' through my avatar or meaning but if I may ask You made mention of the word ‘’stupid’’ above in an issue which clearly does not involve stupidity but simple rules of procedural, natural justice and pure social issues related to finding solutions to Marikana problems. Which morality and solution are you portraying and offering to the Miners by uttering a comment like that!

Comrade (friend in struggle of better South Africa) Mike123, Forgive me for any offence and everybody who support comments like this but I volunteer and remain to be excluded from unnecessary bile and vile like that!

Zuma is not just a nobody but the President of the country and his ‘’package’’ in relation to his Presidency should be respected like as it is done to any President, there are lot of Ministers who can solve that problem before it can actually get to the President! We must learn as individuals to overcome our fears, such as being united and tolerating each other as blacks and white South Africans for the good of our future children and the country.

I respect your constitutionally enshrined ''freedom of speech and expression'' Comrade (friend in struggle of respect to ''our'' (all of us) South African Constitutional Law) Mike123!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE NEED TO TELL EACH OTHER THE TRUTH IF WE HAVE TO WIN THE WAR AGAINST OUR DIVERSITY!

Mike 123...entlek what is your issue...seem as though you have a problems...all your comments have to have something negative about the ANC...wouldn't your time be better spent by hanging yourself cause like it or not the ANC is here to stay

''feather weight'' comments
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Good one Mica! I love a person who calls a spade a spade! Say it as it is! I guess that is what Mike123 can offer, lol, he can only read from 1 to 3, he clearly does not have brains to make any meaningful comments! I agree advocating wrong things will not take us anywhere as a country!

Once again Mica, YOUR ARE A LOST SOUL AMONG HYPOCRITES THAT YOU CALL YOUR CADRES! Is never late to jump the ship over to DA, your intelligence can be used a GREAT DEAL in the DA!!

I bet mike u suppose they'll be more intelligent if they support the AWB ... this tells me a lot about ur own level of intellect ...

You are still trying to score political glory madam or what! I will remain ''ANC CADRE'' come rain or sunshine, I am at a very ''high profile'' rank to be lured through the ''eyes of colourful sweets’!!!

I am a committed ANC /African patriot who will never ''sell'' the ''soul and flash'' of ''our'' people for individual self ''penny and gold’’ Never in my life will I ever be a ''sell out'' through light cheap politicking business at expense of our people who I value and love for the honest and real feeling of fraternity!!

@Mike 123

As i said yesterday u are a very hostile & angry person by nature. Your obsession for the ruling party(ANC) confuses me.

I am one of those people that voted for ANC(Zuma), does that make me stupid? By the way Zuma has not failed me as an individual.

MicaParis
The problems in the country are many and complex. Equally there are many opportunities to solve those, we have lots of resources and goodwill amongst all populations. The problem is that the leadership is not able to gather all these positives and come up with solutions. They are not able to deal with the complexities, they are simply unable to do that.

What we see instead is corruption on an unprecedented scale where for instance ( to quote but one example) ANC cadres are reported to have looted on a grand scale state resources in Limpopo for personal gain at the expense of learners. This hapenned after Zuma's election , at the hand of "comrades" his administration ( not Mbeki's ) appointed.

So in that sense Mike is right, it was stupid to have voted for Zuma, and that's not a hateful or racist comment. It's simply a fact.

President Zuma visit Marikana representing the Government that cares for its people. It is incorrect to think that every visit that the Government undertake it is only because they need votes. Let me correct Mr Mike that the members of the ANC choose their leaders in conferences not in any platforms. That is why the ANC did'nt use this platform to score political goals like others do. Lastly let us respect one another when we put our views on the net whether we like each other or not. If we respect each other, other countries will also respect us. President Zuma did't failed us, we failed ourselves if we don't work together to create better communities. Mr Mike, allow me to invite you to help us to overcome all the difficulties we find ourselves on daily basis without pointing fingers. United we will win all the battles. Regard

''''''''WE NEED TO TELL EACH OTHER THE TRUTH IF WE HAVE TO WIN THE WAR AGAINST OUR DIVERSITY!''''''''

Then it should be the truth and nothing but the truth.....

The problem with this is that most anc supporters vote for the anc entirely with their emotions in anticipation for a better SA and for themselves and in the process they completely overlook the real facts of the miserable past performance of the anc to date.

Yes Mike123, zuma didn't just failed the miners, he miserably failed SA.

Mike I agree with you. I also wonder why they haven't recalled Zuma yet. He is by far a worse leader than Mbeki. Corruption has flourished under his leadership and still he is in power. Is it something he knows, is he protecting the interests of the corrupt elite? His "leadership" must be benefiting the cream of the crop. And those hypocrites don't care two bits about the average citizen.

I see your on liner elicited a tome from MicaParis. Let's face, it the "humble" Zuma has one hell of a lot to be humble about....

Zuma said he would discuss the workers' demands with Lonmins Management and "if it is me that you want, I will come".

I think he said that only because he does not want to lose votes. If he genuinely cared about the plight of mineworkers, why has he said and done nothing for the thousands of mineworkers from Aurora Mines who have been left unpaid and homeless for about two years? The Aurora mineworkers are starving and in much worse circumstances than the Lonmin mineworkers who are at least still earning a salary, which is comparable to salaries earned by teachers, nurses and medical emergency personnel. Is it because Khulubuse Zuma is involved? Double standards and hypocrisy.....

That's a good point Romy. Whilst the knives are wielded for the capitalist Lonmin and their poor treatment of workers (and I'm not saying there's no merit in that), it seems the nationalised version is no better...

Thuka-Thuka
Its a balance we want, between investment, return and labour wages. That's what we need to achieve. If wages are too low, workers suffer, if they are too high, investors wont create jobs. It's all aquestion of balance.

Teachers and nurses do not earn R4000 pm even the ones fresh outa varsity ...

Yes sir, Zuma is a hypocrite and if he wins a second term then things will only get worse. So people I ask you to vote intelligently. If you still vote ANC, then all hope is lost. Rather vote for smaller parties like ACDP, UDF, Cape Party, etc. It is just wrong for the ANC to have all this power and abusing it.

@spain2

Neither do the rock drillers at Lonmin. According to Gideon du Plessis of Solidarity; "The adjusted total cost package of a Lonmin rock drill operator is approximately R10,500 per month, excluding bonus's". He also looked at the actual payslips of the rock drill operators and found that their actual take home pay ranged from R6,000 to R12,000 per month, depending on the number of shifts worked.

Two journalists from the Daily Maverick also saw the payslip of one of the striking Lonmin miners they interviewed. His basic pay for the month was R4,365.90 + R1,850 housing allowance, benefits, bonus pay = R8,124.80. After union fees, uif, other fund contributions and tax, his take home pay was just over R5,000.

The Executive Vice President of Mining at Lonmin, Mark Munroe, confirmed that Lonmins' rock drill operators earn in the region of R10,000 per month without bonus's and over R11,000 including bonus's. These levels are in line with those of their competitors and are before the wage hike of some 9% which will come into effect on 1 October 2012.

If you want to read further then google: 'What do the Lonmin rock drillers actually earn".

I'm sure the 'moronic voters' will jump ship after reading you comment, and vote alongside you. You see, the 'moronic voters' ended apartheid in 1994, and the superior, intelligent voters voted the NP until it died its natural death

''''Ím sure the 'moronic voters' will jump ship......'''''''

I don't think so.....it is clear that they are prepared to go down like rats on this sinking ship !

@SiyabongaBiyela

I was under the impression the ANC ended apartheid and not the voters. At least that is what I heard them say and that is why they continue to loot freely as they think it is their right.

There is no such thing as a moronic voter. However in our country people do not vote intelligently. You cannot vote for the same party election after election, as this causes corruption to flourish if this party should stay in power. Look at the USA for example, they change parties every 4 to 8 years, which is a good thing. It does not completely end corruption but minimizes it.

In SA people make the mistake of voting on the basis of colour. Now if that is not racism then what is? Africa has a long history of dictatorship and if we have not learned from it, I am afraid that we are following along that path.

@ ILoveTheTruth

You wrote : There is no such thing as a moronic voter. However in our country people do not vote intelligently.

Do people need to vote in a way that u prefer them to & then u will consider them to be voting intelligently?

You wrote : You cannot vote for the same party election after election

So you are suggesting that we must change parties every 4 years when voting? I don't think that will solve anything as different parties have different policies & that will mean we will have to change our policies every 5 years. I'm not saying people should vote for ANC but changing parties every 5 years will only take us backwards & not forward.

You wrote : In SA people make the mistake of voting on the basis of colour. Now if that is not racism then what is?

So u are telling me that the DA is voted by only white peope & the ANC only black people? I don't think so.

You wrote : Africa has a long history of dictatorship and if we have not learned from it, I am afraid that we are following along that path.

I think u are way off the mark. Isn't it why we vote every 5 years to eliminate the possibility of dictatorship? U can never call it dictatorship if people vote for leaders.

@Makoya1zn

Look, if you want to misconstrue what I said then by all means go ahead. I cannot help you with your tunnel vision and limited understanding.

I am not going to justify my words, as it is clear you do not understand it. However I wish to mention one point. There are many different forms of dictatorship, voting or not, as you should be aware of. Currently the ANC knows very well that as long as they receive the votes from their ill informed supporters/previously oppressed, they can dictate and loot freely. If they start losing votes(by slaughtering/oppressing their supporters) they will obviously change their tactics, same as Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

@ ILoveTheTruth

You wrote : "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

Do u mean all South Africans who voted the ruling party are blind with yourself included as a South African citizen?

You wrote : Currently the ANC knows very well that as long as they receive the votes from their ill informed supporters/previously oppressed, they can dictate and loot freely.

During the 2009 national elections 17,680,729 people voted with 11,650,748 voting the ruling party(65.90%). I'm sorry but do u mean all these people are ill informed/previously oppressed?

The answer should be interesting coz if u were not oppressed during aparheid then u were the oppressor?

What were u? the oppresed or the oppressor?

I thank u, i will listen on my iPad

@Makoya1Zn
Are the USA and all other western countries who change parties every 4-8 years moving backwards or we are forever moving backwards with our continuation of the same party. In four years, how many cabinet reshuffles did we have? How long does it take every office bearer to adjust and hand over to the other, do we really stand a chance to focus when we change people from office every 1.5 years? Same party every election and 2-3 individuals per office in between. I know you will say I am out of context but yes that is what your government does it.

@ kksonuk

Are the USA and all other western countries who change parties every 4-8 years moving backwards or we are forever moving backwards with our continuation of the same party. In four years, how many cabinet reshuffles did we have? How long does it take every office bearer to adjust and hand over to the other, do we really stand a chance to focus when we change people from office every 1.5 years? Same party every election and 2-3 individuals per office in between. I know you will say I am out of context but yes that is what your government does it.

You wrote : I know you will say I am out of context but yes that is what your government does it.

Point of correction it is OUR Government assuming u are a South African.


You wrote : Are the USA and all other western countries who change parties every 4-8 years moving backwards.

Unfortunately whatever u & i think is irrelevent compared to what the rest of south africans think & that's the beauty of democracy. The majority rules whether be it the ANC, DA, or IFP. We have to respect & enjoy the freedom we have of choosing who leads our nation coz some countries don't have that luxury, priviledge or right.

Yes, ask any USA citizen they will tell u that no progress has been made during Obama leadership except ofcourse for same sex marriages.

The sad thing is that the Americans have differnt issues that drive their election campain and term of office than we do. Same in the UK and other western countries. Never in this country do we address issues of health and education, rather never in this country does the ANC address issues of health, homosexual mariage and education during election campaign, BUT apartheid is mentioned always (at least in the area where I come from). Intimidating people about how white people will come back to kick us at the back when we work and that they will take old age pension back and pay our grannies once every 3 months. That white people will stop social grant and that there is no other party that can stop that except the ANC. For the past 18 yrs the main delivery that they promise people is "a tap of water in from of their yard on the nearby road"

The change that people do not see in the US was never seen during Bush's era and neither was it seen during Clinton era BUT the system does not collapse. They voted against continuation of war in 2007 and they got that, They wanted security (defined as death of bin laden) they got that, they wanted reform in health care, they got part of it while discussions go on. They wanted economic stability, they got part of it and it is a world problem today. But they have a freedom of no intimidation and their government will never, and never ever authorize shooting of the citizens, Never!

Wow man, so many wrongs in your statement.
1 They already have a living wage. (Whilst you can argue that, statistically its true)
2 Police have to be involved to protect the innocent and stop anarchy type behaviour
3 Strikers opened fire
4 As I understand it, it was not a protected strike
5 labour brokers fullfill a need, without them there would be more unemployment.

Unless we get our facts straight and as long as we only speak emotionally, we cant solve any problems.

@BobbyBob
1. I bet you are earning R4000 and happy about it.
2. in your own space, what police did last Thursday was protection of the "innocent (whoever (the innocent) they were)
3. Strickers opened fire and missed and died
4. anyone embarking in an unprotected strike must know he/she is sacrificing his/her life.
5. Without labour brokers, employers in South Africa do not know how to recruit. Before elabour broking existed, no one was employed in South Africa (I hope you also got your job though labour brokers and are happy with how they treat you).

Comrade Bobby Bob
''Unless we get our facts straight and as long as we only speak emotionally, we cant solve any problems.'''
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I share the same sentiments! Blogging for the sake of ''going with the flow / being blown by the wind' will never take us anywhere!Or blogging by being driven by the 'heat of the moment'

Blogging in ''gangsterism'' antic and attitude will not only divide us but will even fatally turn us into ''bad emotionally'' inclined nincompoops who miss the real issue, not because they do not know but because of deep divisions through the ''eyes of racial hatred'', fair criticism conquer!

Constructive criticism is of vital core importance than all hundreds of ''insults'' combined, we live in the same country as such must ''force our selves'' to love, respect and tolerate each other!

Constructive criticism without fear or favor is in order. The problem is that our blood is of a certain color (not mentioning which one but none in the mix is red).

The question is: A person who voted for Zuma and now lost a father, a husband, a brother an uncle etc. on Thursday last week and saw the same Zuma come pass by and say nothing, that person now feel disappointed, let down, ignored or stupid? I doubt if sunset (darkness) can stop someone to say condolences unless the person do not care or has something to do with the cause of death, more specially when realizing you are the president, highly protected than anyone else in the country and a government (police) are the ones who shot people. He managed to talk to them (police) to ask them and tell them Job well done, but we need to do damage control later last Friday and did not care about the poor people on the ground. He had to be convinced to come back and say something. Shame indeed. Good those people were brave to tell him what he did not want to hear. Not so intelligent that he did not realize he opened a loop hole for Malema to exploit. I bet if any of the fallen men on Thursday were your (MicaParis) relatives, you would have probably removed the pic you have next to Ur name though the old man has nothing to do with this.

MicaParis

''''''''Constructive criticism is of vital core importance than all hundreds of ''insults'' combined......''''''

True when one deal with people with a fair IQ, but a moron will usually understand it as an insult.

@bobby Bob you insult your country and the people that live in it with such ignorant statements. You have no respect for human life anybody with any form of judgement no matter what their political affliation would know that a great injustice occured in Marikana and it was not lonmin or the goverment rather the children/wifes/parents of the dead your education my dear sir/mam will be the downfall of this country. You fail South Africa everytime you say a set policy is the only way (i.e labour broking) , who says we cant live without labour brokers you with your extensive research and tried and tested models or is it in some book you read.The lack of innovation in this country is the real problem, South Africa is like no other country in the world yet you seek to exact Blue prints from other nations on us.I have not heard any report that says civlians were harmed by the strikers and that they posed any threat to the community of marikana maybe I just missed it. A Democracy ran like a monarchy/military state tends to sway towards Anarchy.Let leaders lead and not point to the dark(night) as a factor fro he who is leader by day I assume should be leader at night.
Let it be said "South Africa like a teenager it is should move from the peer pressure of other nations(and internal forces) and move into its adult years of democracy really free and fair "

Absolutely nothing, my dear.........Like so many promises uttered by Zuma and ANC, this one will eventually dilute unfulfilled until time to dupe them for votes again.....

Now Zuma aims to mining companies....We all know that they will never lose. They know that by oiling the right pockets and "donating" to the right party coffers, they will operate with impunity, and if by any chance they get hit by nationalization and other utopia maneuvers, they can pull out until they can make new deals with the new satraps......

Well Mama, I expect things to get much worse. I am not a pessimist, and think of myself as a realist rather. Ten years ago I predicted that things will get worse and it did. I now predict that hundreds/thousands of people will be killed during strikes/rise-ups in the next few years. In 5 years, if humanity is still around, this country will be in a civil war.

I hear Mac told journalists that parliament was in 'mourning' so he couldn't give them an update on what was happening about this. I also foresee a lot more 'mourning' if we don't get someone with some leadership qualities in charge soon :(

Not Mac , Jimmy Moneyi.........

I thought Mr 'Over-supply" Jimmy was fired?
That means that it was done with his usual arrogant sneer - poor journalists.

.......still as good as arrogant as ever: M&G "Marikana: Govt won't talk, it's mourning".

To show his ''sincere sympathy'' for the families of the miners.....?

I don't think so......!

He sure as hell wont lift his little finger without an ulterior motive !

I agree with u my man, it seems like if u are ANTI-DA your comments get deleted here. So much for freedom of expression that the ANC fought so hard for. I dare u to delete this comment.

I don't think it is a DA member - they are usually quite capable of arguing their case without resorting to deleting comments.
The deleter is more likely to be an ANC comrade who is embarrassed by your views!

I bet it is not DA. Maybe someone out there who does not comment but just delete what he/she does not like. Mine goes for days "black listed" kind of, with none going through at all not even deleted and my comments are 90% against the ruling party! LoL! And I know the ruling party will never delete people's comments, and neither can DA do when we comment in their favor! There is probably a third force! LoL!

@ kksonuk

Then maybe it's a member of Freedom Front Plus or Cope. Lol

Mary-Kay
You have a point and am with you on that one. The truth is that the government is doing damage control. The death of the two police and security guards and the other 6 minors (protesters) wold not cost them votes at all because those (according to the government) were unfortunate incidents. The minors killed on Thursday was premeditated but with a condition that if they do this we kill them. None of them (officials) realized how it will backfire at the end. And the rest is history.

Another good question to ask is: WHERE IS COSATU? Why is VAVI so QUIET about this whole thing!? I know he issued a statement on Friday about it, but is he really a quiet man on issues like this with all rhetoric going on every day?

Don't be silly, Mary-Kay - there's no political mileage to be had from attending these memorial services! The matter of the death of a couple of policemen, security guards and innocent miners are considered by the government as mere collateral damage!
Zuma and his Ministers need widespread TV coverage and large crowds in attendance when making their grand public appearances.

Oh! Yes, they were there, observing the movement and the next target. Lol! From there they know where to get off.

In this country one death is never a one too many. The death of Mr Tatane in Ficksburg should have taught people a lesson. But who are we to talk a lesson (associated with education) in anyway. Are circumstances not similar here and at a larger scale? How much more do we expect soon in future. Hear people soon after this saying apartheid killed people in Lonmin mine! I am a previously disadvantaged person as well who could easily be working at Lonmin mine and have friends and relatives across all the mines and I worn them (government) never to mention this is as a result of apartheid.

Frans Baleni, from NUM earns over 100000 bucks monthly (Mail&G).

Do not expect the rest of union leathers from the NUM-COSATU-Vavi-SACP axis are earning considerably less. Since they are important partners from ANC Mafia Syndicate, they can afford a tear here and there........