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Thu May 23 11:37:09 SAST 2013

Kabul tragedy: SA bleeds

GRAEME HOSKEN and KATHARINE CHILD | 19 September, 2012 00:09

"We just want our boys home. They were ordinary okes, doing extraordinary work in extraordinary circumstances to provide for their families."

This is the message from families of the eight South African aviation experts killed in yesterday's suicide bomb attack in the Afghanistan capital, Kabul.

Though details of the fatal blast are sketchy, it is believed the eight - two of whom were to have married their loved ones soon - stopped for fuel while travelling along the city's main road.

It was a stop the killer, a 20-year-old woman whose terror group was apparently enraged by the recent anti-Islamic US-made movie Innocence of Muslims was prepared for.

The bomb is believed to have been hidden in the Toyota Corolla that the woman drove into the men's minibus.

The blast completely destroyed the minibus, ripping the South Africans' bodies from the vehicle as it and several others burst into flames. In total, 12 people were killed.

The eight South Africans, who included pilots, engineers and aviation support staff, were working for aircraft chartering company BalmOral Central Contracts and the aviation sub-contracting firm CemAir.

CemAir leases aircraft to BalmOral, which has logistical chartering contracts with the allied forces and the Afghanistan government.

Mark van Buuren, the uncle of aircraft maintenance engineer Johan Bouchaud, 30 - who along with Fraser Carey, 31 - was killed in the blast, said: "None of us can believe it. It does not make any sense. There are no words to describe our pain.

"You see this on TV every day, but you don't expect it to happen to your family."

He described Bouchaud as an ordinary person "like you or me", who loved aircraft.

"Flying and aircraft were his life, his passion. This was not the first time [he went] to Afghanistan.

"Johan, who worked for CemAir, went to Afghanistan because he wanted to help his family. The money was good and he wanted to be able to support them," he said.

Van Buuren said Bouchaud was due to return to South Africa next week. "We were all looking forward to seeing him again. He had been gone for more than six weeks."

Van Buuren said all the family wanted was to get Bouchaud's remains home.

"That is the priority. All we want is our boy home, but it is not going to be easy. They still have to identify all of them before we can bury him."

Messages of support and love flooded the Facebook pages of some of the men.

"RIP chine, you will never be forgotten!! The way you took life in your stride and always put a smile on our faces," read one to Carey.

"Frankie my boy! Your shenanigans will never be forgotten neither your eternal thirst! Clear skies all the way my boy!"

Carey's former Johannesburg high school, King Edward VII, tweeted condolences to his family in a tribute to him.

BalmOral CEO Sej Dunning said Afghanistan had become chaotic following the anti-Islamic video, making it dangerous to travel from one side of Kabul to the other.

He said identifying the bodies was extremely difficult. "We are in the process of identifying bodies."

Many of the families of South African pilots and support staff working in Afghanistan waited in anguish yesterday for information about their loved ones.

Some received brief messages from men in Afghanistan informing them that they were okay. The men could not speak by phone because their communications are monitored by the US military.

A BalmOral staff member said the company provided aircraft, pilots, maintenance crew, administrators and "everything else their clients needed to run their own private flights". He declined to name its Afghanistan clients.

President Jacob Zuma sent condolences to the victim's families.

"I am deeply saddened by the deaths. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the deceased," he said.

The US embassy condemned the incident, with US ambassador Donald Gips saying: "This vicious attack again shows the insurgents have no respect for human life.

"As Secretary [of State Hillary] Clinton has said, there is never any justification for violent acts of this kind."

Nelson Kgwete, spokesman for the Department of International Relations and Cooperation, said it was offering consular support to the victims' families.

"The department is in contact with the aviation company that employed the deceased.

"The department is also in possession of the list of names of the deceased. Efforts to confirm their identities and to contact their next-of-kin are currently under way," he said.

"The department wishes to express its sincere condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of the deceased."

SHARE YOUR OPINION

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SecretVoice

Posted 246 days ago
Avatar
An American citizen makes a video depicting the hypocracy in the Muslim ( Islam) faith and an Afganistan woman of this violent faith kills amongst others eight South African citizens. Our President expresses his condolences to the families of the diseased but he fails to condem the act and the name in which it has been perpetrated. It is disgusting and shows his total lack of leadership and morale. Why are all the Muslim clerics quiete about this atrocity? Why are they not condemning this act of barbarism and hatred? The only answer to these questions must be that the the message of the video actually hit the nail on the head.
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Remote

Posted 246 days ago
Ditto
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muk1

Posted 246 days ago
There are lots of Muslims that don't agree with this type of violence and the clerics that condem this baberic act will not make the news. Extremists make up a minute proportion of society; but our media plays to their tunes.

Shongweni

Posted 246 days ago
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Some obscure Egyptian in America cobbles together a low grade movie accusing Islam of being given over to excessive, indiscriminate violence. In response a Muslim woman in Afghanistan drives a car packed with explosives into a van full of South African pilots who have never even heard of the film or the film maker and are not even Egyptian or Americans and blows them all to pieces. Seems that film maker knows exactly what he is talking about!

MicaParis

Posted 246 days ago
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"We just want our boys home. They were ordinary okes, doing extraordinary work in extraordinary circumstances to provide for their families."

The sentence says it all, I feel very pity for the families involved, especially young children who had been left destitute.
The world is a strange mysterious place which is full of many questions in respect to its miseries, fictions, filth and folklore, of which will forever remain unanswered, the questions and answers of which will forever remain the same.

donorfatigued

Posted 246 days ago
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The madness of the mullahs is quite beyond belief - since the guy who made the video is an Egyptian living in American and not even believed to be a US citizen!

If ever the claims of a 'religion' being devoted to psychopathic violence have been proven by events, this is it!

ppss

Posted 246 days ago
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No words of condemnation from our local muslim population? I guess the attackers weren't Israelis.

Mercenary

Posted 246 days ago
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I see we all journalists now, and not very good ones at that. What links the bombings to a low budget miselading movie, assumptions or because the media said so? This would never have happened prior to the US invasion. To blame muslims is to stereotype them and to blame them just because it happened in a muslim country is ignorance. Why are christian priests so quiet about the US's numerous invasions and deaths of over 500 000 muslims since 2001 i mean Obsam and Bush and Blair are dedicated christian (from what i read) do they approve it in the name of freedom, hypocritical ne? If you bother doing research you find clerics are most vocal about these atrocities, just because its not in the media don't mean they quite numbnuts.

I pray for the family cannot imagine loosing a loved one, hope they rest in peace and their family find the strenght to continue with their lives.
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bugsy

Posted 245 days ago
Mercenary I see that you send your condolences the families of the victims. I'm sorry if I missed it in your post, but I don't see you actually CONDEMNING the attack.

SuiGeneris

Posted 246 days ago
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Killing innocent people randomly, in the name of islam, simply they have a beef with someone else. Who is this god they worship ?

MuhammedAbdulRahman

Posted 246 days ago
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Hate speech (which is a crime in this country) will not be tolerated on this website. This comment qualified as hate speech and has thus been removed - ED

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DaveinSA

Posted 246 days ago
Really, do you really think that?

"Kill all the unbelievers and the world is a better place for all humanity?"
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QPCLCD308

Posted 246 days ago
MuhammedAbdulRahman

you have just misplaced the litmus paper! all animals are equal none are equal than others.
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mzansi-wanda

Posted 246 days ago
I am not and will probably not be religious because of the fear of being an intolerant fundamentalist, may it be Christian, Islam Judiac. I will however, pray for you Sir, your kids born and unborn and those who harbour or prone to harbour like prejudice in the name of religion, race or sex.

Condolences to the families of the innocent people (bread winners) who were slained without cause. May the Gods cover them in a blanket of love, solace and understanding in these trying times.

Sad indeed.
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Stirrer

Posted 246 days ago
"Kill all the unbelievers and the world is a better place for all humanity."

Surely only an insecure religion can harbour such extreme ideas? Do you have evidence that Muslims are being killed by the "unbelievers" simply because they are Muslims? Barbaric actions by radical fundamentalists only strengthen other Faith-based religions like Christianity, which are based on love rather than hate!

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muk1

Posted 246 days ago
@MuhammedAbdulRahman.

Your thinking is definitely outdated. How can you say kill all the unbelievers? Where does this logic stop? Next you will kill all gay Muslims, then all women that don't wear parda (black ninja outfit? Tolerence and education brother is the way to go. If Islam is about peace; then there is NO place to justify killings.
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staren

Posted 246 days ago
@MuhammedAbdulRahman

So just because someone doesnt share the same religious OPINIONS as you, you think you have some god-given right to take their lives? On the one hand you tell us God is Merciful, God is Compassionate and God is Great and responsible for the life and beauty that surrounds us, then the other you us its your duty to take the lives of those same creatures that your God created, simply because they dont hold the same beliefs as you...

Please, until the moment that God or his Angel actually appears to you in person and commands you to go and "Kill all the unbelievers and the world is a better place for all humanity", please, please, start thinking for yourself, and stop believing everything simply because you are told it is so by other men (and yes, reality check, the Quran was written by men - that it the word of God, is nothing more than your opinion).

RIP the victims.
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Mercenary

Posted 246 days ago
Dude i'm a muslim as well, not sure if i'm taking your comments out of context, but i am followin up with you just incase,unlike most people here who just take what the media say as gospel without using their brain. Islam teaches us to be tolerant of other religions, people etc our way of living is meant to attract Kaffirs (not a racist word just a term ofr unbelievers). Already Islam is the fastest growing religion by more than double of Christianity which shows that people are seeing the light and from my experince these people are intelligent have realised the shortfalls of their religions. So the ummah is growing in all levels, those that do injustice against us will be exposed if not by our brothers and sister by the almighty.
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Solm

Posted 246 days ago
Im also Muslim brother, Im upset by whats happening in Afghanistan and all other places where Muslims are either oppressed or invaded, but Islam doesnt condone killing of people indicriminately.There is no way to justify the killing of innocent civilians.However, these mercenaries from South Africa were not innocent civilians.Since they aiding the occupation of Afghanistan, its up to the Afghans to sort them up.
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SuiGeneris

Posted 246 days ago
mercenary

Explain this.

Why do these islam suicide bombers [martyrs] believe that they will go straight to heaven when they kill people of another religion ?

Is this what your islam god teaches you ?
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muk1

Posted 245 days ago
@SuiGeneris

People interpret holy scripts differently. Jihad has 100 different explainations. A few extremists have taken the words and minced the meaning; hence you have these crazies that believe that dying for the cause will guarantee a seat in heaven. All religions advocate peace; but the followers are the worst examples. Lets all strive to become like Mahatma Ghandi and the world will be a better place to live in.
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Anticrooks

Posted 245 days ago
Who gives you the right to call others non-believer just because they don't believe in what you believe. It is this myopic and bigoted attitude that makes others despise your religion so much. I wouldn't want to believe in a God that needs mere mortals to protect its name!

QPCLCD308

Posted 246 days ago
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Very sad situation of affairs. Condolences to their families.

HanifManjoo

Posted 246 days ago
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"Kill all the ka...s and this country will be a better place for us'

Wasn't that the mantra of you whites during 'apartheid' days (and still is in the west to this day about Muslims)?

Even Chrisitianity & Judaism preach and practise violence; and all religions teach peace (what a contradiction)!

So, take your pick!
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BobbyBob

Posted 246 days ago
I am not aware of either Christianity or judaism murdering people or condemning a nation because one idiot in that nation makes a stupid video.
Thats the difference.

Solm

Posted 246 days ago
Avatar
What were they doing in Afghanistan again?Ahh, to help with the logistics of occupying Afghanistan!To Afghans, all non-Afghans in Afghanistan are occupiers, it doesnt matter to Afghans whether these people were South African or not, it means nothing to them.To the eyes of Afghans, they are all occupiers.Period.
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SecretVoice

Posted 245 days ago
What are the Congolese, Nigerians, Zimbabweans,Lesoto's and the rest doing in our country. According to your logic we must kill them an it is ok. What a sick mind do you put on display here. Just another example that you are still at the bottom of the civilization tree.
Avatar

Anticrooks

Posted 245 days ago
If my understanding of waht you are trying to say is correct, then no person from a different country should be in any country. Another bigoted idiot who believes that his religion is better than everyone else's. Just for the record, it is only the muslims that go around killing people in the name of religion; and all over a stupid movie!
Avatar

Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@SecretVoice

You didnt get my logic at all.I said these mercenaries are AIDING the occupation of Afghanistan.Why are you making an example about Zimbabweans and others?I didnt know this country was under military occupation, let alone having these nationalities aiding our occupation.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
They're not mercenaries sparky, they are there to help the Afghan people at the behest of the Afghan government.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@BobbyBob

What Afghan government are you talking about?The one installed by the Americans that control 10% of Afghanistan?Its more like these people are contracted by the Western forces to help manage Afghanistan.This is the cover they using but they most probably mercenaries.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, you prefer the alternative? Dont like education, women, justice ?
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@Bobbybob

Who doesnt like education?Who doesnt like woman?Who doesnt like justice?What are you on about?
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, thats pretty much what the war was about, to allow the people a future and gpersonnal growth. To move away from oppression of the worst kind. Do you really need an explanation, dont just read propaganda man, read a bit broader
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@Bobbybob

Yeah the invasion of Muslims countries and the killing of Muslims is in my brain! Its all in my brain right?
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm,
I hope one day you get a life man. Shed the cloak of misery.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
LOL now I need to get a life?You need to open your eyes and read more.There are always two sides of every story.Your simplistic and superficial view of things is making you look like an armchair.

EddyDeepfield

Posted 246 days ago
Avatar
Christians no longer torture people on the rack and then burn them slowly to death above a fire any more. They used to, for minor scriptural disagreements. The only reason Christians don't do that any more is because science has educated them and they have been brought kicking and screaming into the modern world. The Jews committed pogroms and genocide on their enemies in the OT. So some Muslims are remaining true to their version of understanding of their scared book. As Blair said they are behind the times, time for Muslims and all religions to join the "Jesus who" and "Mohammed who"? era? and "Yahweh who"? era.
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ppss

Posted 245 days ago
@Solm. Really? Seems to me that the majority of muslim deaths are at the hands of other muslims. If you don't believe me maybe you should visit syria.
Avatar

Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@pss

Syrian rebels are armed by the West and their Arab allies.So these rebels might be Muslims technically but they are fighting for a Western agenda.Therefore the blood being spilled in Sryria (and the Lybian one) is in the hands of the West.
Avatar

BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, get over this West thing of yours. Its yesterdays thinking. Todays world is being shaped by those in their own countries. No western power in their right mind would want to run a mid east country, nor do they want to be in a barbaric backwater if they could help it.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@BobbyBob

Yeah you right, they just want their resources.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, they buy and pay for resources. Oil costs over USD 100 per barrel today! Running a country is way more expensive.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@Bobbybob

Yes they pay for the oil.The same money they invest in the West.You tell me who benefits from such a relationship.Even the money these idiots invest in the West, they cant disinvest it.You tell me who benefit.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, I am afraid your message is unintelligeble. The same money they invest in the West ? What does that mean ? What about China, Japan, Korea etc... all buyers of mid-east oil. Not just the West man.
Avatar

Solm

Posted 245 days ago
You need to read about the agreements the Saudis made with Standard Oil Company in the 1930s and the deal between roosevelt and Saudis in 1945 to understand what I mean.The problem is not my message, its your lack of knowledge about issues.
Avatar

seen_it_all

Posted 244 days ago
@EddyDeepfield

Quick reality check: what you see happening between East and West at the moment IS the real 21st century and exploitation by the west is a massive problem now just as it was in the past. Claiming that muslims should join YOUR special vision/version of the 21st century is like telling them to just shut up and let themselves be exploited a little bit more. Quoting Tony Blair is even more ridiculous - people are calling for him to be put on trial for crimes against humanity!!! Should we simply forget that he and Bush pulled off an invasion of a foreign country with the west believing the lies about weapons of mass destruction? I can't remember any cases of muslim countries invading western ones - can you???

The "Jesus who" era is just about as far away as the "Mohammed who"? era? or "Yahweh who"? era. Sorry, but taking away anyones religion is just not a solution.

Christians no longer torture????? Never heard of WATERBOARDING or Guantanamo Bay, I guess!!!


You talk about "religious indoctrination and anti West politics" - what better example for "religious indoctrination and ANTI-EAST politics" than the ridiculous video clip causing all this outrage and bloodshed. Just goes to show that Western religious fundamentalism is alive and well...

Man, there are more holes than arguments in your arguments...!!!!

EddyDeepfield

Posted 246 days ago
Avatar
Why must some take the live of others and think they will spend eternity in paradise? The answer is religious indoctrination and anti West politics. Why don't moderated Muslims speak out? Because of fear. They are more afraid of their fanatical brothers than they are afraid of Allah.
Avatar

Solm

Posted 246 days ago
@EddyDeepfield

Your logic is twisted.The solution is the West getting the heck out of Muslim countries and minding their own business.The real core of the problem here is the quest of the West to dominate and plunder the resources of other countries.This is the problem here that you seem to ignore.Stop sticking your head in the sand and wake up.
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EddyDeepfield

Posted 245 days ago
Solm - that is not the answer. We are a global village. Those South Africans killed were there on work. The answer is for some Muslims to join the 21st century and dump their superstitious nonsence.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@EddyDeepField

Im not against globalisation if it means working together while each country maintain their sovereignty.If globalisation means being under the Western control, then Im not interested.Globalisation and Western control are not synonymous.You seem to be confusing the two.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, this west thing of yours is unintelligeble. Globalisation by definition means, Far East, East, West, South etc... everybody. Can you grasp the concept?
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@BobbyBob

You naive now you think everybody is.With your globalisation, its everybody under who? I cant drop the West thing,as you say, its very much a big part of the problem in the world.
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, its only an issue in your brain man, the rest of the world moves on. You're stuck in some horrible place. Get out more....
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
Get out more?I dont need to.I have far more important things to do than getting out.My view of life is obviously very much different from yours.We dont share similar priorities.

AllanWhitehead

Posted 245 days ago
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Will somebody ask Balmoral/ex SADF, who gets the benefits ?
RIP, knowing that God Is a Great GOD....

i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
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""""The solution is the West getting the heck out of Muslim countries and minding their own business.The real core of the problem here is the quest of the West to dominate and plunder the resources of other countries""""""

Why the Muslims don't get the heck out of Western countries then, go back to their countries of origin and administer their own resources??????......

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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@i_stub_born

Its the Western countries occupying Muslim countries, not the other way around.
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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
........so the muslims living in Europe and US are 'tourists' or perhaps photoshop manipulations.........
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

Muslims live in the West, they not militarily occupying the West.Surely you know that.
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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
.......why do they prefer to live in the Western countries instead of their own???......Why are there fanatic muslims milking from western economies instead of going back to enslave their own?.......

......for these same fanatic lunatics a single westerner, and I am not talking about military, in a muslim country represents an "infidel" who must be dealt with..........
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_sub_born

.......why do they prefer to live in the Western countries instead of their own???......Why are there fanatic muslims milking from western economies instead of going back to enslave their own?.......
=========================
Most Muslims in the West are independent professionals or business people.Yes there are refugees too in Spain/France/ Italy from North African countries.These North African Muslims are in the countries that colonised and plandered their countries and left it rapped.These refugees are running away from corrupt regimes in their countries supported by the same former colonisers.This is the reality, far from the simplistic rhetoric you spewing here.



......for these same fanatic lunatics a single westerner, and I am not talking about military, in a muslim country represents an "infidel" who must be dealt with..........
===========================
Thats another simplisic statement.There are Muslim countries with non-Muslims like Iran, which has a very large Jewish population that has been there for over 2500 years.Egypt has a Christian population that has been there for almost 2000 years.The same with Tunisia and Morroco.This distortion of trying to make Muslims intolerant to others is a new thing.Muslims have lived with non-Muslims for over a thousand years, in peace.Its only recent, after the discovery oil in Muslim countries, that the problem with between the West and Muslims started.
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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
.........educated professionals and others, like the non-muslim ones precisely do not want to live under any tyranny, neither political nor "religious". They contribute to the societies where they live. If they would believe in the bullsh.t west vs east, they would return would they not?.....Where are the many Libyans now that Gadaffi is enjoying his 'virgins'....are they returning to prevent the west to colonize them again??.........

""Kill all Jews and annihilate Israel!' Iran's Ayatollah lays out legal and religious justification for attack"".......

So, because oil was discovered, the previous "tolerant-to-each-other" "benign" fanatic moslems of today have decided that whoever is not a muslim is an infidel and must be killed..........

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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
"""The country's 8 million Coptic Christians were already feeling increasingly cornered amid the rise to power of hard-line Islamists in Egypt following the ouster of Hosni Mubarak.""""""
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

.........educated professionals and others, like the non-muslim ones precisely do not want to live under any tyranny, neither political nor "religious".
========================
Actually most of these people left after WW2, a long time ago for the West.They are 3 generations in the West.It wasnt the issue of political or religious tyranny.They were dupped into aiding the allies durring WW2 in return for many niceties.After the war, when the allies won, they were left high and dry.

They contribute to the societies where they live. If they would believe in the bullsh.t west vs east, they would return would they not?.....
=====================

A lot of them are coming back by the way, after realising that what is preached in the media about the West is one things and living in the West is another.


Where are the many Libyans now that Gadaffi is enjoying his 'virgins'....are they returning to prevent the west to colonize them again??.........
==================
Lybia is chaotic now.It will take Lybia a very long time to stabilise.I dont even know if they will ever get rid of all the weapons the West supplied the rebels that removed Gaddafi.

""Kill all Jews and annihilate Israel!' Iran's Ayatollah lays out legal and religious justification for attack"".......
====================
Thats propganda.If that was the attitude of the Ayatollahs, there wouldnt be any Jews in Iran.Those Jews in Iran refused to go to Israel, even with bribes, they still prefered Iran.They feel more safer and comfortable in Iran than in Israel.They have been in Iran for over 2500 years.

So, because oil was discovered, the previous "tolerant-to-each-other" "benign" fanatic moslems of today have decided that whoever is not a muslim is an infidel and must be killed..........
==================
Again another BS.The animosity was created by the West imposing and supporting corrupt regimes in the mideast to get a constant supply of oil.This is the problem, not your 'fanatic' obsession.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

"""The country's 8 million Coptic Christians were already feeling increasingly cornered amid the rise to power of hard-line Islamists in Egypt following the ouster of Hosni Mubarak.""""""
======================
You need to lay off the propaganda for a while.Hoew can the Coptics feel cornered when they took part in removing Mubarak?Some of the Coptics voted for Muslim Brotherhood.Please get your facts right, stop circulating the BS you pick from the net and pasting it here.

i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
Avatar
........even if these fanatic lunatics could conquer the western world, they could never ever be able to enrich the human race with the achievements and progress of the arab civilization, centuries ago...Their aim is to destroy everything irrespective if its good/bad/fair/unfair............
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

It all depdends on what do you mean by civilization! If you mean technological development, the current Western technology owes its existence to many contributions (including Muslim ones).So we all had a hand in this, no one can claim exclusive rights to any technological developments.
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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
...arab civilization or culture from centuries ago, contributed to mankind, fanatic muslims of today only want to destroy mankind. That is the point............
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm, think today and tomorrow sparky, dont think about eons ago.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

Destroy mankind?Can you be more specific?
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@BobbyBob

No, I think wholistically.We are here today because of a series of particular events.We just didnt 'land' here.
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i_stub_born

Posted 245 days ago
""""""Destroy mankind?Can you be more specific?""""""

.....ha ha ha.....that sound so "ANC"......

....Can you give "specific" examples how fanatic muslims respect other cultures and creeds ???..........
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BobbyBob

Posted 245 days ago
Solm,
that may be so, but our future is more imporant than our past. Let future generations not say that people living today did not progress because they only had a rearview mirror, they could not look forward. By the way its "holistically " sparky.
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@ i_stub_born

""""""Destroy mankind?Can you be more specific?""""""

.....ha ha ha.....that sound so "ANC"......

....Can you give "specific" examples how fanatic muslims respect other cultures and creeds ???..........
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Do you realise that you havent told me what I asked you?
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Solm

Posted 245 days ago
@Bobbybob

Solm,
that may be so, but our future is more imporant than our past. Let future generations not say that people living today did not progress because they only had a rearview mirror, they could not look forward. By the way its "holistically " sparky.
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Without the past you got no future.Who said knowing your history is against progress?You have a very strange way of looking at things.By the way thanks for the correction
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seen_it_all

Posted 244 days ago
Hi Solm.....
Thanks for your contributions here - I love your logic and insight and your ability to keep a cool head. That alone should really be enough proof for idiots like "SPARKY" Bobbybob (sounds like a KKK member) or i_stub_born (great pseudonym for someone who is likely himself a "fanatic lunatic" ) that the situation cannot be explained as simply as they believe and that not all muslims are blind fanatics....Good work Solm!