The Sunday Times spoke to Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva through his office ahead of his arrival in Johannesburg on Sunday for the 15th Brics summit at the Sandton Convention Centre from Tuesday to Thursday.
What is Brazil's expectation of the 15th Brics summit?
“After 13 years, here I am once again taking part in a Brics meeting, a group that I helped to found — which is a great joy. My expectation is that our discussions and decisions in South Africa will have an impact on other international forums such as the UN General Assembly, the G-20 and the COP28 in the United Arab Emirates. And that we may prove that another world, a fairer and more globally balanced world, is possible.”
What are some of the issues that Brazil has prioritised for this summit?
“Discussions concerning ways to face inequalities — income, gender, race — and the fight against hunger; on tackling climate change, which was the centre of the discussions we held at the Amazon summit; and on a new global governance and the reform of multilateral institutions; as well as debates on the expansion of Brics itself.
“And there’s another topic that excites me a lot — within Brazil’s return to the international stage — which is the relationship between Brics countries and African countries. During my two previous mandates, I worked hard to strengthen relations between Brazil and African countries, as well as trade and exchanges in the South Atlantic. I am glad that here, at this summit in South Africa, we are going to discuss how Brics countries can advance, alongside African countries, to deliver stronger and inclusive development in Africa.”
What is the president's view on the expansion of the Brics bloc?
“I am glad that — 15 years after it was created — so many countries want to join the group. We must have criteria to maintain what brought the group together in the first place: developing countries from different world regions which did not find, in post-war global institutions, a corresponding space that was proportional to the size of their economies and populations. It is essential that new member countries are in tune with this quest for a more representative and balanced global governance.”
Which countries is Brazil lobbying for to join the Brics family?
“It is not Brazil's role to lobby for other countries to join Brics. The decision to join Brics is up to each country — and the discussion concerning the group's expansion must take place in a consensual way among members. The existence of dozens of candidate countries to join Brics reflects the growing importance of this forum and the ideas and purposes that led to its formation.”
What is the president's view on the de-dollarisation matter?
“The world did not depend on the dollar at the time of the gold standard. When the dollar became the standard international currency, without any backing, all the countries in the world found themselves dependent — in their international transactions — on a single country. This is why, within Brics, we must discuss alternatives such as a reference currency — not to replace local currencies, but which may allow for greater exchanges between countries such as Brazil and South Africa without depending on the currency of a third country.”
What is the president's view on the absence of Russian President Vladimir Putin and what does it mean for the summit?
"[Russian foreign] Minister [Sergey] Lavrov is a very important and experienced diplomat, but it would be very important that Russia participated in this meeting with its president. We are going to discuss important global issues, such as peace and the fight against inequality, and I would very much like to be able to discuss them personally with President Putin.”
What does the president make of the tensions between China and India?
“Brazil has no disputes with any nation in the world. We have always defended and believed in dialogue, diplomacy as the best form of relationship between countries, and the best way to resolve differences. I have had excellent meetings with President Xi Jinping, President Modi, and also with President Ramaphosa, with whom I attended a bilateral meeting at the global finance summit organised by President Macron in Paris.
“I am sure that at this Brics meeting we will work together on our convergences and continue to evolve our partnerships — which have advanced with the Brics Bank and with so many countries showing interest in joining the group.”
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