André de Ruyter refuses to name minister who told him 'you have to enable some people to eat a little bit'

Former Eskom CEO André de Ruyter has refused to name the minister who told him to allow people to eat when he reported criminality at Eskom.

He would neither reveal the identity of the sources of the crime nor the corruption allegations information he divulged during an interview with eNCA that aired in February.

He said he was constrained by not compromising ongoing investigations.

Frustrated standing committee on public accounts (Scopa) MPs tried in vain on Wednesday morning to get De Ruyter to disclose at least the names of politicians who may have been involved in and/or covering up wrongdoing in the power utility.

ANC MP Bheki Hadebe, who shortly after the airing of the TV interview requested a parliamentary inquiry into De Ruyter’s claims, was the first to pose questions.

He wanted the name of the minister who allegedly said: “In order to pursue the greater good, you have to enable some people to eat a little bit.”

De Ruyter insisted that disclosing the identity of the minister would pose a security risk.

“Having regard to the nature of the criminal and unlawful activities, the sources that I relied on to inform the law enforcement and intelligence agencies have legitimate reasons to fear for their safety.

“I’m therefore not able to divulge their identities because doing so may compromise their identities and their safety,” he said.

He said the alleged criminal and unlawful activities were under investigation and at “a very sensitive and complex stage” and involved elements characterised as organised crime.

“As these investigations are ongoing and with regard to the public nature of the proceedings of Scopa, I will not wish to be seen to be defeating the ends of justice by divulging information that may compromise the successful arrest and prosecution of individuals implicated in these activities.”

But the names were known to the Hawks, he said, and directed MPs to ask the relevant officers.

De Ruyter appeared virtually before Scopa to elaborate on the allegations he mentioned in the interview after a request from Hadebe to provide more information to the committee.

In not divulging names, De Ruyter said he was also concerned that he did not have immunity and may expose himself to legal action.

“Based on legal advice that I have been provided, disclosing further information could expose me to legal risk, but also from an investigative point of view it is important that we do not compromise ongoing investigations.

“I would be loath to compromise the ongoing investigation by inadvertently undermining and prematurely disclosing the information.”

After the interview, the ANC threatened to sue De Ruyter for defamation after he said evidence suggested Eskom served as “a feeding trough” for the party.

De Ruyter said the comments about “enabling people to eat” were not a response related to general corruption and fraud but to a concern he expressed about the governance of the $8.5bn (about R156bn) funding that South Africa obtained at COP26.

“Obviously when such a large amount of money is made available to an entity with a chequered past when it comes to governance and how funds are managed, concerns arise that this money should be tightly controlled.

“I must stress that at no time was the discussion about the broader elements of poor governance or any combination by the minister concerned of that nature. There was no broad allowance for people 'to eat'.”

De Ruyter said he also shared information about corruption with public enterprises minister Pravin Gordhan and President Cyril Ramaphosa’s national security adviser Sydney Mufamadi.

Scopa chair Mkhuleko Hlengwa argued that it was in the interest of the committee's oversight role to get the names.

“The question is well in order because we have been saddled with the situation of political leadership interference in the affairs of departments and entities.”

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