Meet the SA duo who turn reality into a kind of magic

Watching 'real' people on TV is often more interesting than following the shenanigans of fictional characters.

Kee-leen and Duncan Irvine are the couple who produce the bulk of South Africa's reality TV - The Weakest Link, Come Dine With Me, Strictly Come Dancing, The X Factor, So You Think You Can Dance?, Who Do You Think You Are?, SA's Got Talent and Dragons' Den. Now they have won the rights to produce The Great South African Bake Off, a local version of the British series which has sparked a baking boom in the UK.

Yet Kee-Leen cringes a little at the term "reality television". "We do talent-based entertainment," she said, rejecting the association with shows in which contestants are hurt and humiliated. "The Great South African Bake Off lines up with who we are. It's a kind, creative show, about pursuing excellence."

The Irvines have worked together for 25 years. They met at M-Net in 1990 and broke away in 1993 to start Rapid Blue, a name which combines Duncan's favourite colour and the speed at which they produce shows. They have been responsible for five seasons of The Weakest Link and three of Come Dine With Me South Africa, and are filming season eight of Strictly Come Dancing South Africa and season five of SA's Got Talent.

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Said Duncan: "There are shows where the intention is to put a group of people into a construct with the hope and desire that they will fight with each other or sleep with each other - because if they all just get along, the show is dead.

"Those are not shows we would elect to make. That's not to say they don't do well, but the trend at the moment is a space that is more endearing. People want to watch people on some sort of journey."

Kee-Leen first noticed the increasing interest in cakes when visiting people's homes to cast contestants for Come Dine With Me . "They would trot out the most beautiful pastries," she said. "The memorable Mariska [Schewitz, who tripped while carrying a plateful of food] from PE unveiled a spectacular chiffon cake. I hadn't realised baking was such a big thing."

Duncan has been negotiating with the BBC for more than three years about making The Great South African Bake Off. Part of the process involved securing an agreement to screen it on DStv's BBC Lifestyle channel.

"The channel has to fit the show in terms of personality and audience profile," said Duncan. "And this is the perfect fit. I spotted the show when it first came out in the UK. I could see it was getting great traction and I loved the spread of age. I think I have a pretty good sense of what shows would work in South Africa, but there is no one in this country that casts as well as Kee-Leen."

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A show "can stand or fall on its casting", said Kee-Leen.

In South Africa, apart from being interesting, the cast has to represent the country's diversity. As someone from a mixed background (a Chinese father and an Indian mother), Kee-Leen has what she calls a "crossover understanding" of cultural sensitivities. "I have lived in a very crossover landscape. I feel I have a good sense of how people from different racial and cultural groups will interact and where there are potential pitfalls."

Because we are not a homogenous society, said Duncan, "it takes longer to decide who we are going to put on camera in terms of the dynamics that might play out between people. But often we overthink it. Broadcasters get nervous about political sensitivities; meanwhile an audience just wants to see fascinating people on television. People that make them smile, or laugh, or are engaging and interesting ... But we don't always go for the most outrageous - people are often quite amazed to hear that there were certain applicants who we felt were just too crazy to be on Come Dine With Me."

They can never please everyone, of course. "During the first season of Strictly Come Dancing South Africa, a Mrs Johnson gave me hell over the phone because I put a mixed-race couple together," said Kee-Leen. "And that was already in 2006. There is still the odd comment every now and then - Duncan and I still get stared at on occasion. But it's rare. I think there is far less sensitivity of that sort."

block_quotes_start I love the spirit of Strictly Come Dancing, for example. I love seeing the room going wild every week, and the triumph of the human spirit block_quotes_end

The most unusual thing about this couple is not their success in making more than 80000 hours of television that is in high demand, but the fact that they are able to work together in a pressurised industry, bring up two teenagers and remain happily married. Sitting in the boardroom of their Randburg office, they are playfully at ease and quick to praise each other.

Said Duncan: "I have no doubt that we have been together the longest as a married couple in a production company. We complement each other from a skills-set point of view. When we were promo producers [for the first 10 years the bulk of their work was making on-air promotions for M-Net and SuperSport], I was on the creative side and Kee-Leen was on the production side."

But when Rapid Blue began making full-length programmes, Duncan took over the contractual and technical aspects, and Kee-Leen casting and content.

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Duncan said: "For many years we sat together on every live show, watching one screen, taking notes, and every break we would both jump up and run in opposite directions - me to fix sound or lighting problems and Kee-Leen to talk to the judges or the presenters or the talent.

"Now I spend more time out of the business - finding shows and pitching new ideas and meeting with broadcasters, finding the funding and the advertisers and the sponsors - and Kee-Leen drives the everyday operations side."

Kee-Leen, who had taken time off the set of Strictly Come Dancing South Africa for the interview, said that running a company as a married couple could sometimes be tricky.

"Duncan is the charming nice guy," she said. "We call him Duncan the diplomat. I'm not as diplomatic. I'm very forthright and I don't do divas. So in the beginning people would try to play us off against each other."

Duncan said: "Kee-Leen always says that when I fire someone they come out thinking they've just got promoted. With Kee-Leen, they are very clear they've just been fired but they still love her anyway. That's a huge skill."

"Duncan is very generous," said Kee-Leen. "I think often in creative industries there's a lot of ego: whether people are just business partners or romantic partners and business partners, a competitiveness kicks in. That is not the case here. Duncan has no problem if the spotlight happens to be on me at any point."

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Said Duncan: "I prefer it, actually."

This harmony exists in large part due to joint personal assistant Pam Taylor.

"We call her our work-wife," said Kee-Leen. "She just gets us. We could not do what we do without Pam. Working as a couple and working while having a family is made possible by her and the rest of our support staff."

Kee-Leen said the response to The Great South African Bake Off (visit BBCsouthafrica.com for application forms) has been "phenomenal, right across the spectrum".

"We are in pre-production, shortlisting and auditioning contestants and looking at presenters and judges, as well as deciding on styling, the look and feel of the show. We will shoot in July and August, to be on air in the last quarter."

Getting the licence to produce a format show is a lot like buying a franchise, said Duncan.

"You have to do it a certain way. The upside is you get all this learning from other producers and a brand that is already established. There is far less risk. The flipside is that you never own it."

In the UK, rights are shared between broadcasters and producers, and as a result several production companies are listed on the stock exchange.

In South Africa, the broadcasters own all the intellectual property rights.

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"We are essentially a cottage industry," said Duncan. "If you create your own show and you own it, you have an asset, but no bank is going to loan us significant money - and we can't list - because we have no assets. Producers in South Africa are essentially a collection of glorified freelancers. But we are all trying.

"Rapid Blue has a couple of shows where we are hanging on to some equity. By the end of this year we will have two new shows that we own the rights to, which will be brilliant."

Both Irvines are quick to add that there is more to what they do than the commercial aspect.

"Duncan will only bring in shows that resonate with who we are," said Kee-Leen. "I love the spirit of Strictly Come Dancing, for example. I love seeing the room going wild every week, and the triumph of the human spirit. But we both also like doing programmes that give something back, like Dragons' Den, or SA's Got Talent, where you are changing someone's life. We have managed to get some kids bursaries at schools and recording contracts. It makes you feel good about what you do. It's not just fluff; there's something substantial to it."

"The Great South African Bake Off will have some of that," said Duncan. "Not just for the winners. When the tide rises, all the ships lift. I think a renewed interest in baking will benefit all sorts of people."