FULL INTERVIEW | Safa TD Steenbok reveals plans to rescue SA football

New Safa technical director Walter Steenbok says he wants to silence the drums of disagreement between PSL coaches and Bafana Bafana boss Hugo Broos.

We sat down with the former Kaizer Chiefs head scout to tackle several matters he has to address to whip SA football's foundations into shape.

Read the full interview, an abbreviated version of which appeared in the Sunday Times, as Steenbok outlines his five-year vision.

What does the technical director's job entail?

The TD oversees the football development focus of the association. You’ll also understand that within divisions you’ve got grassroots football, women’s football, coach education, Futsal and beach football, and all of that is the responsibility of the TD.

The key is to run football development programmes in a way that we can help the talent pipeline of players from junior divisions and deliver them into the high-performance programme, which is Bafana Bafana. The TD oversees those departments.

The talent pipeline at best has been haphazard in SA, at least in the past two decades?

The association has identified two individuals with a lot of experience at international level, David Nyathi and Aaron Mokoena. They are going to be part of the national scouting plan. They’ll head the division. That's where I have strong background. I will help develop them as national scouts.

This week we’re meeting both individuals and on Wednesday I’ve got a workshop with them. I’ve already lined up courses that will help them understand the European scouting development programme and align it with SA. The talent pipeline is a problem, but once that is set up, we’ll also have to go to the regions to begin to set up scouting structures.

What is the strategy to turn around the talent pipeline? There have been many people in your position previously, but we can’t pinpoint their legacy. What difference can we expect from you?

When I presented to Safa I was very clear about what needs to happen. My predecessors did what they could and we always need to give credit. They laid the foundation. The office and a lot of information is here.

I told the national committee the strategy first is to look at Vision 2022 — what the findings, shortcomings and successes were. Among 2022 successes were the number of coaches who were trained. Pitso Mosimane, Rulani Mokwena and a lot of others came through Vision 2022. But again, the junior national teams have been qualifying and I think the cherry on top was Banyana Banyana winning the 2022 Women's Africa Cup of Nations (Wafcon).

Banyana was a very successful story ...

I’m not saying Vision 2022 was exceptional. I’m saying there are lessons and shortcomings from there. I’m going to look at Vision 2022 while also looking at Vision 2030 that has been put up by the Safa NEC. Key also is that I’m in the process of designing what I can call a “Safa Technical Renewal Strategy”.

We hear the word renewal, think of politics and shiver in our boots ...

Renewal is the key word. We need to renew the thinking and check what has happened around the world. Morocco seems to be leading [in Africa] in many facets. What has made Morocco so successful? Can we steal something from them?

English football has really developed. But again, similar to Brazil, what can we pick up from there? So the renewal strategy will look at what has happened with our plans. Crucially, in terms of strategy, we’ve been lucky Fifa recently conducted what they call an “ecosystem research” study into increasing global competitiveness. What they’ve done is analyse SA football and with that a foundation has been laid for me.

In its report, was Fifa unkind about our situation?

The report was bare, scathing, but it has given us an opportunity to lay the road map on what must happen. If we can fix 80% of what they’re asking, we’re on a positive trajectory. The strategy will be based on that. It will be based on what has happened with Vision 2022, what the association wants for Vision 2030, a renewal strategy and a look at what Fifa is saying.

We must try to align and adapt systems within the organisation. The past week and this week have been about me interacting with the different stakeholders within the department and trying to find information. I’ve been talking to the CEO [Tebogo Motlanthe], COO [Lydia Monyepao] and Frans Mogashoa, who has been holding the fort [as acting TD] since 2020, and trying to analyse the football ecosystem within the national association. The technical strategy will look into all these things. One of the crucial things about the renewal strategy is that school football becomes important. It has always been paid lip service, but we have to go to provinces and say to them, ‘Can we start Wednesday leagues?’.

School football and its relationship with Safa is not good?

It’s not at the level it’s supposed to be. Some LFAs (local football associations) are doing well, but others are not. The other important part is to bring back interprovincial tournaments because we have challenges when we’ve got international games with the junior national teams outside a Fifa window. We don’t get players. The likes of Mbulelo Mabizela and Jimmy Tau came from these interprovincial tournaments. [We also need to] start an under-15 national team. They have those in South America. We want to have under-15s for girls and boys so the talent pipeline is resuscitated from grassroots football.

Those will be a main part of the strategy. Coaching education has to be aggressive and fast, and we also have to introduce scouting, performance analysis, data analysis and look at sports science and research. Already UWC (University of the Western Cape) and Sol Plaatje University in Kimberley are keen to come on board. They can become centres for short courses. It is going to be very aggressive, but streamlined with our operations.

How do you fix the relationship between school football authorities and Safa?

We need to make an appeal that whatever happens at the top, our kids have to play football. So I’m going to take it on myself to go to the regions and plead. I know there could be budgetary implications, logistical challenges, but we have to ask the schools to play on Wednesdays.

It’s crucial. This year I attended the national school tournament and the talent was amazing. That’s why [Nyathi and Mokoena] will have to be on the road. The TD office is only for strategy and projects. The job is out there and we have to be there and appeal to our people. And let’s forget the past state of SA football.

With Vision 2020 the plan was to be in the top 20 and if we’re going to fix that we have to go back to what made us champions in 1996. Doctor Khumalo, Neil Tovey and all of them, they were not products of development football academies. They came from school football. And where are the kids? The kids are at schools. So we will be fooling ourselves if we don’t want to go down to grassroots and schools and say let the games be played there and let’s get selections moving there. 

How does the relationship between a TD and the Bafana Bafana coach work?

When you go to the Fifa organigram, the technical director and coach operate at the same level. So Bafana Bafana is not the TD's responsibility and that must be clarified. The job of the TD is development programmes, football development, tracking the pipeline and taking players into the national teams. But because I’m a local I’m willing also to assist in mending the relationship with the professional wing, with teams in the Premier Soccer League (PSL) and First Division (NFD).

We need to have a our tour to Durban, or wherever it is, so we can fix things, understand what are they (PSL clubs) and the coaches are thinking because that has not happened. The national coach doesn’t report to me. My job is to help SA deliver.

The Bafana coach has been complaining that he receives no response when he wants to meet PSL coaches. Why?  set up a meeting with PSL coaches? Why?

I want to take that upon myself. I’m in the coaches group. They’re my colleagues because I come from the Safa structure. [Mamelodi Sundowns co-coach] Manqoba Mngqithi, all of them. Coming to this interview, I was talking to [Orlando Pirate assistant coach] Mandla Ncikazi. So I want to be a bridge between the coach [Broos] and the PSL coaches. It’s a process I’m willing to be part of because there are some critical issues that must be discussed. The relationship has not been good and I’ve never had a chance to talk to the coach. I need to hold hands with him as we go to different areas so we can mend that relationship.

When is the issue of permanent junior national team coach appointments going to be fixed?

[The Fifa report] had serious problems with that. It said the staff at the national association need capacity. They spoke about junior national team coach contracts. I think it’s something that’s on the table. Suggestions have already been made, even by my predecessor [Frans] Mogashoa. They are with the association to deal with.

As we fix things, this report from Fifa is very important because it’s saying to us, “Appoint coaches on a permanent basis”. But it also goes to the pipeline issue and that’s why I’m saying we need to have interprovincial tournaments. If we start with a national under-15 tournament and teams bring 24 girls and boys from the nine provinces, as the under-15s graduate, others come in. These are going to be elite players when we select for the national under-15 side. [We can also use] interventions, sports science intervention, and anything else that's needed.

I can put my neck on the block and say next year we must have an interprovincial tournament for under-15s. It’s important so the pipeline can begin there.

At 15 it’s already late. We’ll also be looking at 12- and 13 year-olds, and it must start there so the pipeline can be better. If you ask me now, for example, who is the top 13-year-old, left-footed player in Ntuzuma, I can’t give you that because we don’t have a database. That’s why we want to create a pool in KwaZulu-Natal. It’s a huge province and we can select the best players from there.

We have opportunities within our structure that we’ve never used. That’s why I will be trying to knock on those doors and you won’t find me here in the office. The talent pipeline is key. Sometimes our systems miss these players. We want to create a platform for all the players. I need to sit here in confidence and say, “That player in 2028 is going to be in that team”. How many left backs do we have, how many centre backs? The system must be able to do that. That’s the process I’m beginning.

The same with the coaches. We’ll be sending out a circular to find out how many coaches we have and what levels they’re on. We’ll release those figures to say, “SA has trained this many coaches and there’s a shortage here or here”, because if you check provinces like Mpumalanga, North West, Northern Cape and sometimes Eastern Cape, they’re always left behind in these things. The stats will give us direction on what we need to do.

Broos talks about poor quality in our players, but do you think that's the right approach when you have to rely on those players?

The comments by the coach will, I think, be dealt with in the Safa-PSL joint liaison committee. We have to have a framework on what needs to happen.

Does that committee still exist and function?

It’s in existence and they need to schedule a meeting. I want to be part of it. [Regarding the coach's comments], we also need to look at ourselves. I’m not condoning or condemning what he’s saying. Somebody said to me, and it’s key, “When you have coaches who are not qualified in the PSL it means the players are left unattended”. It’s a fact. But remember, the PSL is an associate member of Safa. I don’t want us to throw stones.

From both sides things need to be fixed. We have to look at ways to promote the game. Regarding whether we have poor-quality players? No. We’re in a slump and we know why. If you check the team that lost against Ghana in a World Cup qualifier, it was relatively young in South African terms. They could have gone through to play Nigeria and they could have been in the World Cup. We need to fix things, but the comments of the coach should be put in context in that committee. That’s how I want to deal with it.

As a TD you can’t be everywhere, so how are you going to co-ordinate all you want achieve?

[The Fifa report is] quite clear. It says we’ve got few people in the technical division. Part of the organigram would be first to increase people in the technical division. With time we’ll [make an announcement on a new organigram]. But the same report says we must have provincial technical officers (PTOs). You remember the PTOs [18, one man and one woman in each of the nine provinces] that [former Safa technical director] Neil Tovey introduced. Those PTOs were the eyes in the regions and understood each and everything, and who was based in a province. It was disbanded because of Covid-19, but we have to reintroduce it. The president has also reiterated that we have to reintroduce it. 

What qualifications must the PTOs have?

They must be highly qualified coaches based in the regions, men and women. We have to look there in terms of leadership and management. But again, they must have the highest qualification within Safa. we’re going to introduce scouting and analysis, so we’re going to give them capacity in those areas. They must have an aligned approach.

Is the TD’s relationship with junior national team coaches the same as the one you'll have with the Bafana coach?

The junior national teams report to me. In December, as part of my programme, we’re going to have a workshop for junior national coaches because I’m also looking for reports. It’s important to understand what systems they are using and check what they’re saying in their reports. I’m looking for a two-year report from 2020.

[SA under-23 coach] David Notoane has been here from Rio Olympics. Duncan Crowie has been appointed with Aaron Mokoena for the Cosafa under-17 cup. After that tournament they must give us the report. In December I’m planning to have a two-day workshop with the national team coaches.

Is it success or monumental failure to qualify for tournaments but not make any progress when we’re there? How do we address that?

“Under [ex-SA under-20] coach Thabo Senong we qualified for back-to-back World Cups and under Molefi Ntseki we qualified for the under-17 World Cup. If you check the players who are playing in the national team, the likes of Teboho Mokoena and Reeve Frosler come from that programme. We haven’t done enough. But it’s not only junior national teams. Banyana Banyana in the last World Cup [2019] couldn’t get past the group stage. We also saw what happened in the Banyana game against Brazil. The level is different.

What sort of intervention is needed for our national teams to catch up with the top teams in the world?

That’s why I mentioned the intervention of sport science and research. [Banyana] coach Desiree [Ellis] came to me and said there are other things she needs. We might not be aware. Banyana also had a mental coach when they were going to the Wafcon. Their preparation was not the best, but they still showed that they’ve done well.

The next challenge is to come out of the group stage [of the 2023 Women's World Cup], but also, how do we help them do that? Also, when the World Cup is finished, we need to introduce and cement what is happening with that group of players. That’s the challenge, but the report also says the [women's] under-20 team last played in 2020.

One of the things we need to improve, which will also help us to get out of the group stages, and Fifa talks about it, is the nature of the opposition. We need stronger opposition, but of course periodically. Also, successive camps and what I call proximal training. Proximal training means we should be able to ask government and the department of sports.

For example, when we want to play Lesotho, let’s meet in Bloemfontein because Fifa says junior national teams don’t play enough matches. So if we want to play Eswatini, we can play in Nelspruit, Botswana we can play in Rustenburg, Namibia in the Northern Cape. With that, international experience increases in the period leading to the qualification programme.

By the time we reach the tournament we would have played six or seven matches. They are much better and maybe they can help us get out of the group stages. Qualifying and getting to the knockout stages also helps with development. We’re well aware that with some of these processes we might not be able to see the results now. The results may only come in 2025 in the next World Cup circle, because the next World Cup at junior level will be in 2025 [under-17 and under-20].

If we start provincial tournaments, select under-15s, allow them to have more games, proximal training and so on, sometimes a camp with north Africans, by the time they go to the tournament they’re much better and can do well.

SA players playing abroad are sometimes forgotten. How do we ensure every SA-born player, no matter where he/she plays, gets a fair chance to be in the national team?

Tracking players is critical. I’m glad that a current under-20 team player, Storm Jonas, is playing in Portugal and was called to the squad [to play in the Cosafa Cup under way in Eswatini]. David Notoane has been one of the coaches key in tracking overseas players. This is an area that we need to look deep into because we’ve been sleeping in that area. I will need support and budget because we have big challenges. It’s easy to say we’re not in the top 20, but where are the building blocks? Germany are number one in the world because of structures and firm policy decisions. We have to commit ourselves. The issue regarding goalkeepers in the PSL is a big one. Does SA produce goalkeepers? These are issues we must address.

Another issue is a playing style that suits our players. Do we have one and does everyone follow the script?

The national playing philosophy is there. It was designed by people like Ted Dumitru and Simon Ngomane. It also talks to the kind of players we must recruit. The problem is implementation and enforcement. That’s why that junior national team workshop in December is important because we have to talk about these things. That’s why we need to talk about the reports because the reports will indicate what system the under-17s are using and why, the under-23s and why?

We’ll have a benchmark. We’ve got video analysts. The plan is there and we have to refine it. And this information can be the kind that sits with us. It must go to the [Safa] website. The national playing philosophy must be on the website and also, if it is possible, reports from the tournaments.

That’s why I’m beginning with national women’s league playoffs in Polokwane on October 17. We’ll have a study group that will give a report about the tournament. The reports will have trends and recommendations. These are things we must do.

Academies in SA — how many we have and how they operate — is Safa in control of them?

The Fifa report has highlighted that the academy system in SA is haphazard. But Fifa have a talent development scheme. It's a programme where Fifa give the national associations $50,000 (R910,000) annually to fix shortcomings in the talent development ecosystem. What [former TD] Mogashoa has already done is requested a one-year programme for training and regulation of academies.

How many academies do we have in SA?

The association does not have that information. That’s why I’m saying it’s haphazard. There are also development centres and a set of rules for academies. We are setting them up using Fifa’s scheme. We’re beginning next year with training coaches and setting up the curriculum.

What is needed in academies, how many players must we have and what kind of accommodation must we have? We understand that in England they have categories and if you are category 1 you’re expected to be at this level, category 2 this level. So we’re in the process of setting them up next year using the $50,000 from Fifa. Mogashoa has already made the application for that.

Another constant thorn in SA football is age cheating and discovering players at 27 or even later. Why?

For the Cosafa under-17, when the SA team is selected the MRI [age] scan is being used.  We’ll know that a player in 2023 was under-15, and this is the age as we progress. As for the cracks in our system, you know I’m very passionate about scouting. So we need to lay a good foundation because the system loses a lot of players.

Teko Modise never played at under-20, Papi Zothwane, Jimmy Tau, the list is endless. That’s why we need to make sure the criteria for selection is standard and you train people. It’s fair enough to have been a good player, but scouting is completely different. That’s why David Nyathi and Aaron Mokoena are there. I am doing my PhD and its is on talent identification and a development model for SA because it’s an area of major interest.

When we talk about academies, it’s also about the environment. Are we giving our players the right environment to develop. These are the things we need to check and say, “If you are at an academy, this is the direction you must take”. We must know why the system lost someone like [Ndabayithethwa] Ndlondlo. Arsene Wenger says in the Fifa report, “Let’s give all talent the chance”.

When we start at the bottom we will know someone might be a late developer and won't miss him. We must know this is what we have. Belgium is doing it. We should know when a player is dropped from the national team and why. That’s the system we must have.

Do you have a time frame for appointing full-time the junior national team coaches?

The CEO [Motlanthe] handles that, but ideally by the time we go to the World Cup. We’re hoping to qualify for the under-17 and under-20 in 2025. Maybe they’ll already be permanent. There’s a lot of work and they need to be focused and they need to do their own scouting and to talk to players. They can’t be doing all of that when they have their clubs. For now, the relationship is more ad hoc and detrimental to SA football. By the time we go to the World Cup, if we do qualify, they should be permanent.  

How long are you going to be sitting on that chair as a TD?            

I hope to finish this project. I love football and I love SA. I came through the structures. I’ve been in LFAs in Mangaung, LFAs in the northern suburbs in Cape Town, a student playing football, an academy manager, a scout, I’ve coached in the regional league, coached in the ABC Motsepe League, coached in the First Division, coached in the PSL. So I understand the challenges of our people.

I know that sometimes teams are selected in the provinces and the players have never met. They meet on Friday and they’re playing on Monday. I understand all these challenges. I’ll take these five years, but in the short term I must help Banyana Banyana to have the right support structure to help them go past the group stage in the World Cup next year. Help Bafana Bafana also with talent coming through because if we want to qualify for the 2026 World Cup when we’re outside the top 10 in Africa, we’re going to have a challenge.

We’ve got to be in the top 10. There is a whole lot that needs to be done, but we’ll make small strides. Like I said, school football, interprovincial tournaments, will be very crucial. Coaches also — the qualifications are key. But we’ll take it bit by bit because the challenges are many and we can’t do everything at once. 

Surely the issue of coach qualifications at the PSL must be fixed?

It’s one of the matters we’ll discuss in the Safa-PSL liaison committee because one of the things we want to tackle is whether we have clubs in the PSL and NFD that have women’s teams. If we want to grow the game, women’s football is the key. The issue of a player cap for squads at PSL clubs. I don’t want to tackle all these matters at one meeting. Let’s get to this meeting first, then raise these things. We must put it on the table and tackle what is detrimental to Bafana Bafana. That’s my thinking.